to think the expectations about children starting Reception are very low?

[mendimoo]

I look after my nephew a lot because his parents both work long hours (NHS.) Today he had a home visit from his teacher before he starts school next week. She bought some things with her as 'ice breakers' and, in her words, was 'absolutely amazed' by DN. She bought some five piece peg puzzles that my two year old has been able to do for months. DN showed her the 100 piece puzzle he'd completed that morning and she was gobsmacked. She asked some leading questions to see if he knew his colours and again was shocked that he did. Again, my DD can pick out colours and colour sort and she's two - DN has known his colours since around 18 months.

DN also demonstrated that he could read numbers 1-10 (he can read 1-20 but she didn't have the resources to stretch that far), read CVC words and use words like more, less, bigger, smaller, the same to compare objects and groups. She asked if he could recognise his name and was really shocked that he could read and write it.

I think reading the CVC words is a little ahead but don't most children know their colours and numbers by reception age? The teachers expectations seemed extremely low.

Also I think it's a good way to find out weather the family are supportive or will it be a up hill battle

Also there accomdation if a child in in a beds it with 2 siblings it will have a detrimental impact on there education and the teacher can have so,e understanding

I think knowing this stuff before a child even steps into your

Has anyone ever spoken officially to Rob's mother about her perspective on their marriage (in a sort of background research way)? I can't help thing that her Rob blinkers are so huge she would spill the beans without realising it could all look weird to anyone normal.

Sorry - completely wrong thread. As I was looking at the right one at the time, I have no idea how that happened.

The children who are so abused/neglected that they do not know they have a name are pretty few and far between. Home visits do sometimes result in safeguarding referrals, but the vast majority don't.

The number of children who actually begin Reception not knowing what a book is or knowing they have a name must be absolutely tiny. Similarly while 4 and 5 year olds have accidents, the ones with no SN starting school not toilet trained must be few and far between too. I'm just thinking of the last 5 Reception classes I have known in inner city, deprived schools (so 150 4 year olds) and no child started school in nappies.

It's not just kids from deprived areas - my sister teaches in a private school and has had a few kids start still in nappies. In one case, she had a girl who was still in nappies in year 2 and she had no learning difficulties. She didn't seem embarrassed by it and her parents didn't see it as a problem either. Very bizarre but obviously that was an extreme case but it does happen. But even then, reception age kids still have accidents, as my sister frequently tells me, and my niece developed a phobia of going to the toilet and refused to go.

I've never heard of teachers going into kids homes before. My mum would have had an absolute fit if they'd done that with me seeing as I ignored the health visitors for years. Every time they tried to get me to do an activity I stared blankly at them, so much so they told my parents I was deaf. (I am most definitely not deaf). A visit like this would have been yet another embarrassment for my poor mother.

In 2004, 1 in 10 UK children didn't own a book.
By 2011, 1 in 3 UK children didn't own a book.

I can't find any more recent figures, I suspect the situation hasn't improved.

I do kind of sympathise with the OP - if you only have one child (or in this case nephew) who is on the fast side developmentally, you don't have much clue what the range of normal is. I confess that I also thought the reception expectations were low when my only experience was my DD1. But then DS came along and he was being expected to do stuff that he was not remotely developmentally ready to tackle, and from that new perspective I think the expectations are actually much too high! He is, for instance, I think just about ready to start forming letters properly now, at 6.5, though it is still hard work. As it is, I've been frantically giving him lessons this week to try to soften the blow to his already rock-bottom confidence that will be starting year 2 unable to write. If he was in Scandinavia, about to start school aged rising 7, I'm sure he would fly (and the fact he was born 3 months prematurely and across a school year division would cease to be the huge issue that it currently is).

This kind of skill really has bugger all to do with intelligence and everything to do with the luck of the draw in whether you are developmentally ready to do this stuff at 4, as our nonsense system makes kids do in this country. I can imagine OP secretly thinking 'ah yes but DNephew is really much brighter than kids who can't read at 4, how could it be otherwise' - I suspect it's an overwhelmingly tempting assumption to make. Only now, from the perspective of my two very different kids going through reception (let alone what the third will make of it all!), do I see just how utterly mistaken it is.

Children may not own books at home, but something like 99% of children take up free nursery hours so will be used to 'how books work' from that.

Sounds like private schools have a much, much bigger issue with children starting in nappies than state schools then!

Agreed Barb. My kids both went to daycares attached to really expensive private schools & the teaching aides there said lack of toilet training is worse of a problem with well to do parents where (ironically) one parent stays at home. Not sure why.

I have twins one of whom was toilet trained at 2.5yo, can do a 50 piece jigsaw by herself, never ever goes outside the lines when colouring and draws really detailed pictures. She can also do simple adding and subtraction sums.

DT2 was toilet trained at 3.5yo and sometimes still pees her pants when she is distracted, can't do or just can't be arsed with jigsaw puzzles, paints blobs but knows all her letters and what sounds they make and can spell out simple words such as cat/bat/bed etc. She also climbs everything in sight and falls over a lot (she gets that from me )

They have both just turned four so will be 4 and 3 weeks when they start school with some kids who will turn 5 in the next few months. I certainly do not expect my two to be on the same level as the older kids and I will be avoiding any playground bragging from other parents

Point being different kids are good at different things and the teacher was clearly just being nice and over the top to ensure that your DNep felt comfortable around her.

My nana and auntie worked in schools and I could read before i started school because it was something they taught on a daily basis and since I have a Sept birthday i had a whole extra year at home and was bored they taught me. It did not mean i was better that the other kids, just that I had additional help.

It does make me sad that 1 in 3 kids don't own a book though.

I'm surprised too at the number of people who are vehemently against home visits from a teacher. Both my older two had a home visit before starting school and it was really helpful and positive for them. They definitely settled into reception swiftly and happily and I saw the home visit as being a critical part of that.

Mind you, I suspect home visits are done for another reason in the kind of area we live in (v affluent with highly desirable schools type place) and that's to ensure that you actually live where you claim to live. Our local schools are massively over subscribed and it's not unheard of for places to be withdrawn after the home visit (when it becomes apparent that parents have put down business premises for their home address for example)...

But going back to the OP - I can kind of see where you're coming from but as others have said it's hard to appreciate the range of 'typical' if your only experience is of comfortably able or highly able children. If I had only ever had ds2 (Autumn born, v bright, sociable and confident and breezes through the curriculum with ease, enthusiasm and a happy smile) I would probably have thought the same as you op. However my lovely ds1 (summer born, shy, awkward, Aspergers/ADD, averagely bright but lots of issues in the early years, struggled massively for the first 2 years of primary school) showed me that (a) not all DC find school things easy when they're very young and (b) they can catch up in the longer term and it really doesn't matter where they start in reception as long as they are supported at home.

There are no expectations. If you go onto a well-known teachers' message board, you'll always find Reception teachers saying that they have (NT, English-speaking) children who are not toilet trained, can't follow instructions, can't hold a pencil and have only a few words.

poster RunningLulu S

It's because nappies and pull ups are expesive and most parents on limited income want rid of it ASAP

For example we don't have a pot to piss in our children have all Ben potty trained by 2.5 I have one baby left to potty trained and by hook or crook we will be out of nappys my sil who has a lot of money her children were all in nappies till about 3 then pull ups her son who is 4 is still in pull ups during the day

They are simply more expesive nappies

mrsdv, I've only just come back to this thread. I'm not sure which of my posts you're referring to but I'm pretty sure I haven't said I think parents who refuse home visits are being "selfish or obstructive".

I do think it's odd to refuse something as a default position, though.

I'm referring to posters on here, mrsdv, not in the general population. Those who have said there is no way they would allow a teacher into their homes but have not said why.

I agree it would be odd to agree to everything by default but that's not what I'm suggesting anyone does.

Haha our expectations in this country are not in the low side !!!

Children start formal learning in the UK younger than most countries in Europe. This whole thread just shows how insane we are in the UK.

4 year olds should not be being judged or measured. They should be PLAYING.

In Finland children do no formal learning until they are 6. It is the same in many other countries all of which have far better educated teenagers than we do . And far happier children on all global indexes.

No wonder children are stressed with adults going crazy with pointless worry about 4 year olds not being pushed hard enough.

Waterrat big fat clap, I totally agree with everything you said. It resonates with a meme that does the rounds on Facebook that I totally agree with. "I am 4, I love playing, noisy, messy playing. I don't want to fit into your expectations, your learning goals or your learning outcomes. I just want to play" sums it up very nicely I think. We have lost all sense, and are putting pressure on our very young children to conform and fit into a mould of what those who are in charge of education deem is acceptable, or should be doing. They seem to not realise, and judging from this thread, parents too, that these children are only 4 years old who have not long been out of nappies and their cot. Education is lifelong and they will continue learning all throughout their life. They are learning, through play and exploring, just how it should be.

It is not a competition of who can read the most words, or complete the most difficult jigsaw before they start reception, that's insane. Just because a child cannot, does not mean they are less, or are stupid.

That is why I have not put pressure on my 4 year old during the holidays. I want him to explore, to enjoy, to have great experiences, because believe me, it will get harder in the future. Yes we read together, we count, but no pressure on him just how it should be.

I agree that one of his parents should have been home but I could hardly refuse on that basis; it was better me than miss out on a home visit at all. Besides, he is with me more than he's with his parents so it's not as if it was a one off.