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Original poster

to think the expectations about children starting Reception are very low?

293 replies

mendimoo · 02/09/2016 23:55

I look after my nephew a lot because his parents both work long hours (NHS.) Today he had a home visit from his teacher before he starts school next week. She bought some things with her as 'ice breakers' and, in her words, was 'absolutely amazed' by DN. She bought some five piece peg puzzles that my two year old has been able to do for months. DN showed her the 100 piece puzzle he'd completed that morning and she was gobsmacked. She asked some leading questions to see if he knew his colours and again was shocked that he did. Again, my DD can pick out colours and colour sort and she's two - DN has known his colours since around 18 months.

DN also demonstrated that he could read numbers 1-10 (he can read 1-20 but she didn't have the resources to stretch that far), read CVC words and use words like more, less, bigger, smaller, the same to compare objects and groups. She asked if he could recognise his name and was really shocked that he could read and write it.

I think reading the CVC words is a little ahead but don't most children know their colours and numbers by reception age? The teachers expectations seemed extremely low.

OP posts:
SuburbanRhonda · 03/09/2016 23:50

We normally reschedule a visit if the parent can't be there. I'm surprised the school didn't offer that option.

Original poster
mendimoo · 03/09/2016 23:56

They did but the parents couldn't make that day either Sad

OP posts:
SuburbanRhonda · 04/09/2016 00:01

Is he really with you more than with his parents? Shock

I guess it's good for the teacher to see him with you, then, though that does seem very sad.

SolomanDaisy · 04/09/2016 08:38

waterrat, totally agree. There are loads of kids in DS (5)'s class with no interest in letters or numbers, no one cares because they don't start that sort of work until they're 6. And then Dutch children go on to both have higher rates of success in international tests and be happier than British children.

It's a weird adjustment though, when you're used to the British system, when parents evenings consist of ten seconds of 'he's very interested in numbers' and the rest of the session is about social development!

MiaowTheCat · 04/09/2016 12:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SolomanDaisy · 04/09/2016 13:24

My DS likes letters and numbers and exploring and make noise and a mess. He hasn't been pushed into any of them. You can tell because he's just worked out stuff as it interested him, so he knew the 5 times table before the 3 times table because he no one was teaching him and he wanted to be able to count in fives for a specific game. He taught himself to tell the time so he could keep track when we said things like, 'five more minutes'. It's not accusing people of hot housing to suggest that there's no need to be forcing four year olds to learn phonics at a set pace.

Aeroflotgirl · 04/09/2016 15:40

That's good then, all children are different, if they want to do that on their own without pushing all fine. Not all children will be at that level yet or it might take longer. Like you, I am following my child's lead, and I am not forcing him if he does not want to, he is 4 after all, learning should be fun, not a chore.

SolomanDaisy · 04/09/2016 16:08

I was agreeing with Aeroflot, kids just learn stuff when they're interested and there's no purpose to setting a load of phonics and numeracy targets for a child before they start school. I did actually have to work on some stuff with my DS before he started, because he is slightly hyper mobile and really needed encouragement to be able to dress and undress for daily gym and things like that. His maths skills aren't really much help when he's struggling to get his own socks on.

MyDressIsInferiorBlue · 04/09/2016 16:12

Miaow I took those memes to mean let the child choose what they do and play how they want. So if they naturally want to learn letters or numbers encourage the way you would with them wanting to explore the woods, or paint pictures

Aeroflotgirl · 04/09/2016 16:31

Exaxctly soloman and MyDress of course you encourage them if they are showing an interest. I think the Memes were in relation to educationalists and those responsible for education planning in EYF and some parents, seem to loose sight of the bigger picture, that these children are still only little and really want to play and explore. I do detect a boasty overtone to this thread, the op and others on here. Academic ability at this age has littler relationship on academic ability later on in life, some kids are late bloomers and will reach the same in their own time, they are not uniform, but are individuals like adults in their own right.

SolomanDaisy · 04/09/2016 16:50

This is only from observing my DS and his friends, but I think at this age kids have really spiky skill sets, brilliant at a few things, whether social skills or reading or cycling, terrible at a few and then most stuff in between. I'm guessing as they age that all flattens out a bit and in a few years the vast majority of kids can read, put their socks on and play in a group. I'm so glad my DS is in the Dutch system and getting a couple of years to focus on other skills before anyone starts worrying about teaching them all to read.

MrsHorsfall · 04/09/2016 17:45

Coolerthanthereddress- I sincerely hope you are home educating your children with an attitude like that!

Marynary · 04/09/2016 17:51

Academic ability at this age has littler relationship on academic ability later on in life, some kids are late bloomers and will reach the same in their own time, they are not uniform, but are individuals like adults in their own right.

I think it does have some relationship. The children on the "top" table at DDs' reception classes were generally the more academic children later on at primary and secondary school.

Benedikte2 · 04/09/2016 17:56

I remember that a child I was involved with professionally (5 yrs) was described by her teacher as bring the most able child in the class. I was pleasantly surprised because all her older siblings had ed sn's. Shortly afterwards child moved to a more affluent area and started at a C of E school where she was found to be struggling with the basics and was provided with extra support. I mentioned the discrepancy to an ed professional who expressed no surprise and who commented that it said more about the other pupils and area than the child.

Haudyerwheesht · 04/09/2016 18:03

My kids could both have done all that apart from for ds the CVC words at 18m / 2y or so. Ds is pretty average academically (though looking to be dyslexic) at 9 and Dd is slightly ahead of the curve at almost 6.

Neither were ahead of the majority when they started school. In ds's class there were about 8/9 kids who were pretty fluent readers by that stage.

Idliketobeabutterfly · 04/09/2016 18:06

A lot of these they learn at school nursery so I think the amazement is likely to be a reception teacher persona. Some of these are also in the 18 month health visitor tests too like the peg puzzles and the colour recognition.

SandyPantz · 04/09/2016 18:07

I get that she was being nice but it doesn't change the fact that my two year old could complete 80% of the activities and therefore shows the Base expectations are very low

No. They're not.
She won't have been "testing" how much your DN knows
She'll have been screening for kids who need help with very basic things that all normal spectrum kids can do.

She's not going to bring challenging activities to an ice-breaking meeting - that would be extremely counter productive, can't you see that?

She was being encouraging and ticking your DN off as not needing extra help. That. Is. All.

youarenotkiddingme · 04/09/2016 18:11

The most important thing to a reception teacher is a child's ability to engage in learning. So they take activities a child should be able to do with ease and see if they can be engaged.
Praise is part of that.

And it's nots always about the knowing - I expect the teacher was pleased he could demonstrate the skills appropriately and on demand!

Aeroflotgirl · 04/09/2016 18:12

mary not necessarily. Using me as an example I was not very bright in my primary school years, certainty at 4 I could not read, write I did not know my letters. I coukd not do simple sums, I somehow accelerated later on. I have a BA 2:1 in psychology and a good Msc health psychology and will hopefully do a PhD later. There are lots of late bloomers like me, so children should not be written off at an early age. Children develop at different rates, generally you cannot really tell how academic a child will be later.

Honeybadger83 · 04/09/2016 18:14

We had a home visit from the reception teacher before my son started last year. It was just so there was a familiar face when you went into class on the first day, and I supposed to help the teacher remember the new crop of children. She was more focused on the social interaction side of things rather than his educational level (did he interrupt a lot, was he good at sharing etc) but that was because he didn't go to nursery much. It really makes no difference where they are educationally going into reception, as there were some younger children who couldn't do in July what he could easily do in the previous September, but some of them were only just five, while he is 7-8 months older and that's a big gap at their age.

I'm sure her exaggerated response was just encouragement, and giving him confidence and a positive impression of his new teacher.

KittyandTeal · 04/09/2016 18:16

As a reception teacher is expect most of the children in my class to do all of that except the cvc words maybe.

However, on a home visit I'm prepared for children who find these things very difficult.

Much better for a child to come to school and meet a teacher who has given him 'easy' tasks he can accomplish than get started with tasks that he couldn't do (and yes there will probably be kids in his class who don't know their colours or count to 10. Maybe because the have walk, maybe they has additional needs or maybe they are just developing in a different way)

I am super enthusiastic and 'wow' with all little ones to start with, it's hard to turn it off, I'm like it with the adults too tbh until I'm back in the swing of term.

What you witnesses was a confidence boosting exercise and a teacher who just didn't turn off the 'happy, clappy the world a wonderful place everyone is wonderful' mask.

Trust me, we do know how to differentiate and there is a reason those resources were brought.

Aeroflotgirl · 04/09/2016 18:17

I was on the bottom sets in senior school, even I've surprised myself. Yes I remember the very academic children at my primary, have gone to Oxford Cambridge, or London, and are in the professions. I have also seen those who were in the top sets at senior school, haven't been to uni, are not in professional or academic roles. So it's swings and roundabouts.

PurplePenguins · 04/09/2016 18:21

I don't know where you live, but that is amazing for a child starting in my class this September. As an area, ability is low.

SandyPantz · 04/09/2016 18:21

We didn't have a home visit but we had small group meet'n'greets with the teacher before september, groups of about 5

They had play doh out as the activity

Yeah, a 2 year old can play play-doh, but that clearly wasn't the point of the exercise was it? The point was they got to meet their teacher whilst doing a relaxed "easy" activity that didn't put them under pressure, and got to see a few familiar faces from the kids in their small group too, as well as the teacher getting to see if they could take turns, if they were confident explaining what they were making etc…

Seriously OP it never even crossed my mind to challenge the fact that it wasn't academically challenging enough LOL, it was a meet'n'greet for goodness sake

Ilovewillow · 04/09/2016 18:22

I don't think their expectations are low but they will see a wide range of children and abilities quite often down to age. Between the eldest and youngest in my daughters' yr is a whole yr - there is a big difference between the child who is 5 as they start school and the child who has just turned 4.

In addition they have to build rapport and settle the children so they are enthusiastic and OTT.