to think the expectations about children starting Reception are very low?

[mendimoo]

I look after my nephew a lot because his parents both work long hours (NHS.) Today he had a home visit from his teacher before he starts school next week. She bought some things with her as 'ice breakers' and, in her words, was 'absolutely amazed' by DN. She bought some five piece peg puzzles that my two year old has been able to do for months. DN showed her the 100 piece puzzle he'd completed that morning and she was gobsmacked. She asked some leading questions to see if he knew his colours and again was shocked that he did. Again, my DD can pick out colours and colour sort and she's two - DN has known his colours since around 18 months.

DN also demonstrated that he could read numbers 1-10 (he can read 1-20 but she didn't have the resources to stretch that far), read CVC words and use words like more, less, bigger, smaller, the same to compare objects and groups. She asked if he could recognise his name and was really shocked that he could read and write it.

I think reading the CVC words is a little ahead but don't most children know their colours and numbers by reception age? The teachers expectations seemed extremely low.

[Pandsala]

Sorry to say OP I have acted similarly impressed by wobbly teeth, leaves and blobs of paint. The visit will have been more about getting an idea of DNs personality and building confidence, a simple puzzle is enough to give them something to do without intimidating the less able children, the smiley praise is to make the child happy and confident.

Both my DC could read, write, count and do simple addition/suntraction before starting school, as many children I have worked with could, none of them have been bored because reception also covers the social skills, first steps of independance etc. my baby brother is gifted (I suspect he stole my share of brains) he spent most of reception year learning how to use scissors and how to play and make friends, he came home full of excited stories most days.

[RunningLulu]

YANBU. A four year old without any disabilities should have the support at home to start reception with the ability to count to ten, say the alphabet, go to the toilet themselves, and trace letters and numbers if not write them freehand. They should also be able to share and follow instructions.

All my kids were able to do the above. My neice and nephew were one step further and also knew times tables up to 5 because their daycares prioritized it.

However I think you'll find many people on MN saying it's the teacher's responsibility to do any/all of the above.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Looks like a stealth boast about op nephew to me. As zoe and others have pointed out, children develop at different rates, and mabey the teachers tests represents that demographic. Good for your nephew that he can do 100 piece jigsaw with ease, not many of his age cannot, and nor can my ds who is 4 and has Dev delay. My ds does not like jigsaws so we don't push him, he preferes Duplo or Lego tbh, and can make some lovely constructions. Op you sound very smug tbf, who knows where your nephew will be academically in a few years, just because he is able to do all those things now.

[dailymaillazyjournos]

I agree that there's a huge range of ability at this age. I've seen kids in reception who have no idea what to 'do' with a book and others who could read the same book.

DD sounds like your DC at their ages in terms of knowing colours, words and simple sums by 3. She was socially and emotionally behind a lot of her peers though. It's very good for teachers to get an idea of what the children she'll be teaching are like and can and can't do.

Generally though I feel that in this country our expectations are on the low side. Generally children are eager to learn and try stuff and it's amazing what very small children can do. DD's school 'told' us that she needed to learn all her tables in the summer holidays and know them by the time she started in Sept. That was at 7. I was horrified but we did bingo table games and listened to CDs of tables turned into songs etc and she had them down by Sept. Just repetition and making it fun. She is brightish but nothing out of the ordinary I don't think. Her whole class new them by the start of term. In Japan 3 year olds are taught violin by repetition of simple tunes. Lessons are 10 minutes to start with. Most kids can play a range of tunes pretty quickly. I really do think children have such a strong instinct to imitate and learn that we don't tap into over here. I'm not into the whole Tiger Mother thing. It doesn't have to be intensive learning or turned into a whole big thing that ruins childhood.

[Nataleejah]

We're talking about 3-4 year olds here. Given how many people still keep kids in nappies at that age (i don't mean those with disabilities), the expectations can't be too high.
Academic stuff they'll learn at school.

[SuburbanRhonda]

Teachers and kids relationship belongs in school

Yes, and it's in school that many home issues are noticed. You may not be aware that school staff can now be prosecuted if they do not take enough measures to prevent child sexual exploitation.

[dailymaillazyjournos]

She was brightish, unlike her DM who can't spell knew

[Dahlietta]

I would have thought that, if it actually was a 'test' of his abilities, it was more something to identify any children who couldn't do all of these things and might need some extra attention, rather than an indication of the expected level of the children i.e. I'd be gobsmacked if they could actually do more than this.

[oklumberjack]

Glitterspy, it's not home testing (not in my experience) and it's not a new thing. Both my dcs had a home visit and my dd is now in secondary school.

In our experience it was a one-one meeting the teacher and a LSA. Talking to my school, asking their interests, playing with them a bit - to find out more about what they liked, what made them happy, shyness/confidence - just general info.

IMO it Nade good sense for my child to have met the teacher already before the first day, and for the teacher to have met them.

No 'hulabaloo'. Nothing sinister. It's not new.

[oklumberjack]

Talking to my dc, not my school.

[ReallyTired]

"further and also knew times tables up to 5 because their daycares prioritized it."

Is that really an advantage at four. Dd couldn't read when she started reception. She quickly caught up and overtook the hot housed kids.

When she started school, she could dress herself, wipe her own bum, draw a lovely picture, follow instructions, play nicely. She was more interested in learning to swim than read.

[sirfredfredgeorge]

• "further and also knew times tables up to 5 because their daycares prioritized it."
  
  Is that really an advantage at four. Dd couldn't read when she started reception. She quickly caught up and overtook the hot housed kids.*
  
  ReallyTired Have to agree, a lot of the examples here are skills based, not intelligence based, now early acquisition of skills often goes with intelligence of course as they're acquired more easily. But it can also be quite easy to teach average children particular skills if they're either particularly interested, or motivated for some reason, or you push them into it.
  
  Of course that pushing comes at a cost, the lost opportunity to acquire other skills and practice other things. Of course those other things often help more with intelligence and later skill acquisition.
  
  For me, we never encouraged reading before reception, and don't encourage remembering maths (times tables / number bonds etc.) because they are things that will be taught in whole class groups at school where differentiation is difficult, so easier to just leave it until then, spend the rest of the time.
  
  Anyway, the aspirations for entering reception make sense to have little relevance to academic skills, those skills are going to be learnt at the school, the social and physical development is much more useful.

[RunningLulu]

ReallyTired - neice/nephew could do all the basic skills plus multiplication, so why not?

I personally don't give a fuck about that kind of thing & just focussed on the skills aspect for my kids. The daycare I used focussed on skills too - they used to have teeth brushing lessons, and basic 'cooking' lessons, from 2 which my kids found a lot of fun. I also ensured they could count/trace letters, but didn't really focus on sums or freehand.

[PerspicaciaTick]

I've seen several times, the small children of bright, high-earning parents who flick at the cover of a book like a tablet screen. They have no idea how to work a book or what to expect from pictures on a page.

[BarbLives]

There must be very few children starting Reception who have never been to nursery and have come from homes without books. I've worked in very deprived areas and it was very very rare for a child to have never been to nursery/pre-school.

[pleasemothermay1]

YANBU but will probably be told you are.

As an aside, there is no way I would ever let a teacher

and it's then very likey the school will think somthing off is going on at home tbh they just want to see what type of background the children come from to best support them

[pleasemothermay1]

Sadly it's needed there are often lots of. Children

Who can't dress or undress themslefs
Who can't use even a folk
Who are not potty trained
And who can't sit and listen to say a short story
There are even children who don't answer to there own name because they don't know it

Home visits are needed tbh I wish they could do these at high school level as well some children come from really sad backgrounds and if the school even knew the half of it

[MyDressIsInferiorBlue]

As well as being sad about the children who haven't got books/don't even know how one works. I'm actually really sad about these "so advanced they are bored in nursery and reception" children. They may be academically advanced but they are seriously lacking in basic childhood skills if they are bored. The brightest children will not be bored at that age because they can make their own fun, learn new skills for themselves and they ask questions about how the world works, to further their understand of everything. Bright DC not being stretched and becoming bored at school comes later on when its very structured lessons spent mostly sitting at tables doing set tasks.

[BarbLives]

What do you mean by 'don't answer to their own name'? Do you mean they don't know their legal name because they answer to a nick name or shortened version, or that they literally don't have a concept of having a name?

[SleepFreeZone]

There are plenty of parents who are trying desperately hard to get their three/four year olds to use the toilet, use cutlery, dressed themselves and write their name.

[honkinghaddock]

That list describes my son but it wasn't down to parenting.

[pleasemothermay1]

poster BarbLives

When a child is simply called Oi you little shit

Or just come here now you


Many parents are stuggling with potty training Ect many are not many parents don't talk to there children , don't have books in the house and many children were there virtually raising them selfs this often dose revel it's self in time within school but it would be so much easier if the school new off the bat what the issues of the students were

[CodyKing]

Generally though I feel that in this country our expectations are on the low side.

How can teachers teach when kids come to school unable to sit still? Are still in nappies? Still drinking from bottles or can't put their own shoes on??

Are you sure schools have low expectations????

They haven't started yet and it's the schools fault already!!

[RunningLulu]

True - Bored/intelligent children generally translate to 'so naughty I wish I could smack you' children. They don't tend to 'stare into space' - but abused kids can do.