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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Pardon?

520 replies

MothersGrim · 31/08/2016 19:04

AIBU to not bother with the word "Pardon" for my young children? It seems like a generational thing to me but my parents and in laws correct my young children when they ask "What?"

I was just curious what the expectation is nowadays, should I be teaching them 'pardon'? Is it bad manners not to Confused

OP posts:
user1471734618 · 03/09/2016 15:13

what she means is, sofa, is that if enough people start saying something then it becomes correct. This is because there is no 'academy' of English to state what is wrong and what is not. This is in fact one of English's major strengths as a world language.
Know what is a 'conditional' and what is a 'preposition' is very useful , especially if you are teaching English, but it doesnt make you an authority on English.

Ego147 · 03/09/2016 15:17

This is because there is no 'academy' of English to state what is wrong and what is not

Off topic - but someone should really tell the DFE that Grin

user1471734618 · 03/09/2016 15:18

lol why what are the DFE saying?

Spaghettidog · 03/09/2016 15:27

Ego, I grew up pretty much near the bottom of the working classes. My dad is a retired binman and my mother wiped tables in a department store cafe before she retired. Both of them left school at twelve, neither was fully literate during my childhood and not only did we not have a bathroom, we didn't even have a 'toilet', we had an outdoor one referred to as the 'thunderbox' by everyone. Grin

When I came to this country it was on a scholarship to a university stuffed with Old Etonians for whom I was exotic as hell, but in fact non-aspirational working-class language and UC language aren't a million miles apart. The U/non-U divide is more demarcating off aspirational 'genteelisms' which were completely unfamiliar to me. Since then I've lived in a lot of different countries in a lot of languages, and my professional work is partly in translation studies, so I'm perfectly happy with switching languages a lot, whether that's between French and English, or between different kinds of English, depending on the context.

So no, I don't get judgemental on how anyone speaks, U or non-U, it's more along the lines of switching between languages depending on context, probably because I'm a foreigner, and in some sense it's not my circus or monkeys. However, I think people are often in denial about how important social class still is in this country, and, depending on what you or your children want to do for a living, it may be worth knowing the 'rules', whether or not you choose to abide by them.

derxa · 03/09/2016 15:30

DS1 says 'toilit' to wind me up.

sofato5miles · 03/09/2016 16:34

Meh.

derxa · 03/09/2016 16:41
Grin
Penvelopesnightie · 03/09/2016 20:09

Didn't Carherine Tate do a sketch as A gay gentlemen who when asked if he was gay replied " I very beg your pardon ?".

derxa · 03/09/2016 20:15
Penelope
MothersGrim · 03/09/2016 21:03

Love how this thread has gained 400 posts! And I have no idea if AIBU or not!! Grin

OP posts:
gooddays · 03/09/2016 21:09

sofato5miles

I meant just what I'd said

Penvelopesnightie · 03/09/2016 21:12

derxa: so funny , thanks

DelicatePreciousThing1 · 03/09/2016 21:34

@gooddays
What? No it isn't. How utterly ridiculous to excuse your woeful ignorance as you have done.
I happen to teach English and think you should brush up on your grammar.

DelicatePreciousThing1 · 03/09/2016 21:38

@gooddays

Grown adults should be illiterate in the 21st century. I am genuinely shocked by your response but very much amused by it, also. Dear me.

DelicatePreciousThing1 · 03/09/2016 21:39

...should not be illiterate...

drat

DelicatePreciousThing1 · 03/09/2016 21:41

Start with prepositions. On my desk tomorrow morning by 8.45.

Lol

DelicatePreciousThing1 · 03/09/2016 21:43

@Ego147
Haha. Good one.

Gooddays · 03/09/2016 21:51

DelicatePreciousThing1

That made my day!

DelicatePreciousThing1 · 03/09/2016 21:54

Excellent. It would of made my day if you had used proper English then I wouldn't of had to see that horrendous error.

DropZoneOne · 03/09/2016 22:06

My mum insists DD uses "pardon" instead of "what", whilst I encourage "what" (or, preferably, "what did you say?").

Led to a very funny exchange the other week, after she'd spent some time with my mum, when I said something, DD replied with "wha?" (in a grunting way only small disinterested children and sullen teenagers can muster) and I raised my eyebrows. She noticed that, and continued "what? pardon? sorry? please?" as she tried to work out which word I was wanting to hear!

Ego147 · 03/09/2016 22:09

Love the 'shibboleth' idea though - class identifier and all.

In case people aren't sure, the West Wing explains Shibboleth

DelicatePreciousThing1 · 03/09/2016 22:10

So does Google. Even wiki.

Ego147 · 03/09/2016 22:11

So does Google. Even wiki

But Bartlett is so much better Grin

littleprincesssara · 03/09/2016 22:30

I was raised with all the nonsense about saying How do you do and not saying pardon or toilet and knowing which way to pass the port and I guess it's stuck. I just instinctively wouldn't say certain words. But there's nothing wrong with not being posh/smart! U isn't superior to Non-U. Non-U words aren't rude, they're just signifiers the person is working or middle class.

Technically, someone saying "pardon" is unlikely to be posh/U. They might be middle class and thus appear "posh" to some people. Or they could be (sorry it's such an obnoxious phrase) nouveau riche. It's all relative. But posh is such an arbitrary thing anyway, since it doesn't have anything to do with money or education or success or anything tangible. It's just a load of ancient rules invented so a certain set of people can feel good about themselves and look down on others.

One side of my family are insanely posh (given a title by William the Conqueror type of thing), they are pretty racist and I kind of hate them. The other side who I was always close to were immigrants/refugee stock. I don't think I am posh particularly even if I do use U words and don't buy my furniture, and I'm prouder of the immigrant side of my family than the 'let's keep bragging about what happened in 1379' side.

Ego147 · 03/09/2016 22:38

The kind of person who judges someone for using 'pardon' or 'toilet' is probably going to find another way to judge you even if you do 'train yourself' to use words to fit in.

Shades of My Fair Lady and all that Grin