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Original poster

To think the USA has to choose between two awful candidates

108 replies

EvalionAngel · 24/08/2016 21:49

I am just amazed at how U.S. politics has ended up. We have a woman who steals nomination, lies, does speeches to Goldman Sachs then doesn't release them to the public and let's an ambassador die from her incompetence.

On the other side we have an ego maniac who treats people like dirt, attacks every minority under the sun and can't be trusted with the button.

If I was an American I would be ashamed of my country and how much of a joke it is. The amount of money in politics over there is a joke. I am glad we have PM May.

But in all honesty I think Trump is going to win. I have the gut feeling and I've predicted every election/referendum since John major. I predicted EU ref result as well. It scares me I hope I'm wrong, but then I don't like Hillary.

OP posts:
TheDowagerCuntess · 25/08/2016 02:18

Trump resonates with fuckwits. Most Americans aren't fuckwits.

He won't win, I'm certain of it.

SenecaFalls · 25/08/2016 02:40

I'm for Hillary. No apologies. I supported her in 2008 and happy to do so again.

dybil · 25/08/2016 03:12

I don't believe a lot of the stuff going around about Clinton, but she is a poor candidate. As status-quo and career-politician as they come, and was anti gay- marriage not so long ago.

The US needs a candidate with fresh ideas.

Unfortunately, Donald Trump is an absolute joke of a politician and a horrible human being, so #IGuessI'mWithHer

Inkanta · 25/08/2016 06:35

I'm also glad with have PM May. Wasn't so sure at first. Makes you appreciate what you've got when you compare it to what the U.S have got. We did alright.

AppleSetsSail · 25/08/2016 06:43

Hillary Clinton seems a bit more stable than Donald Trump but I don't think she's any less likely to lead the US into war (she just doesn't exclude Russia as a possibility).

It's an abysmal choice and an indictment of the sausage-making machine.

gettingtherequickly · 25/08/2016 06:43

I'm equally embarrassed about uk politics.

TM is extremely right wing, Corban is unelectable and Owen Smith has just insulted the brexit vote. We have no opposition to the dismantling of the welfare state, and no-one seems to care.

AppleSetsSail · 25/08/2016 06:45

Trump resonates with fuckwits. Most Americans aren't fuckwits.

A lot of people can't abide Hillary. Either candidate will drive the country into the ground.

AppleSetsSail · 25/08/2016 06:46

I'm equally embarrassed about uk politics.

There's no comparison.

TheDowagerCuntess · 25/08/2016 06:53

Nobody is going to drive America into the ground, not even Trump, if he did get in (his utter incompetence would ensure he wouldn't be voted in for a second term, for a start).

One president cannot drive a super-power of the likes of the US into the ground. Confused

Thefitfatty · 25/08/2016 07:06

I can't believe the crap people swallow about Hilary. There is soooo much misogyny in it.

As status-quo and career-politician as they come, and was anti gay- marriage not so long ago.

What's wrong with being a career politician? How many previous presidents (current included) have been career politicians? All of them? Even Bernie is a career politician. Judging her for doing what virtually every other MALE president in the history of the US has done is ridiculous.

And such short memories. Obama was anti-gay marriage when he was elected. He didn't come out as supporting it till the tide turned and it was obvious that the conservatives wouldn't be able to stop it from becoming federal law.

And for the supporting the whole Iraq thing. She was Senator for New York at the time. New York was baying for blood and I can understand she had her constituents to think of. She has admitted she deeply regrets the decision, as do many other politicians, but I understand her reasoning.

Intervention in Libya was necessary. Ghadaffi was a lunatic and if they hadn't supported the resistance Libya would be just like Syria right now. They should have taken Assad years ago and maybe Syria would be a better place.

Hilary has consistently supported women's rights, access to health care, voted against tax cuts for the wealthy, etc etc etc

She's the most qualified and the most level headed. I don't think there's been a candidate in recent years who will balance the needs of big business and the needs of the people as well as she will. And like it or not, but that's something that needs to be balanced.

Thefitfatty · 25/08/2016 07:08

Nobody is going to drive America into the ground, not even Trump, if he did get in

If he gets in, what will happen is 4 years of stalemate. Congress and the Senate will never back him on anything. Top military generals have even said they don't have to follow his orders if they don't agree.

The only thing he's going to do is destroy the US's international reputation even further.

Collaborate · 25/08/2016 07:59

If you think that Hilary Clinton is a bad as Donald Trump that says more about your values (or lack of) or ignorance than it does about the two candidates.

Do you really think you can call Clinton a liar but not Trump? Watch this:

This sums up precisely the image, in my mind, of the core vote that Trump is attracting by his bigoted, racist, misogynistic, and frankly thick as shit attitude and policies. twitter.com/TheDailyShow Look at the post on August 19th entitled "Trump is calling for “extreme vetting” of immigrants. Can his own supporters pass the test?" then watch the video (you can't click on the link in the UK and watch it - need to view it on twitter). Shocking.

AppleSetsSail · 25/08/2016 08:45

Collaborate I'm not arguing that Trump is a good guy. Do you understand that? I'm arguing that Hillary is equally bad, just in different ways.

Is this really the best that the US can do? Given the enormous mess that is the legacy of the Iraq war, could we not have found someone who didn't actually support the Iraq war?

Her being a NY senator does not excuse her support. That's the most shocking defense of Hilary on this thread.

She does make lots of sympathetic noises about girls/women's rights around the world.

The US's superpower has been fading for some time. Hillary's elitist left-wing domestic politics will drive the country into the ground.

AppleSetsSail · 25/08/2016 08:46

I'm voting for a 3rd party and probably renouncing my citizenship whatever happens, certainly more quickly if Trump wins.

user1472110319 · 25/08/2016 08:48

I don't know much about politics never mind American politics but as someone said on TV last week....."We have a choice between a Liar and a Numpty".............

AppleSetsSail · 25/08/2016 08:50

Oh right, her use of her private email server for classified State Department emails - she's still dissembling. This is further evidence of her shockingly poor judgement and arrogance.

Thefitfatty · 25/08/2016 09:00

Her being a NY senator does not excuse her support. That's the most shocking defense of Hilary on this thread.

Yes. How dare she vote for what 89% of her constituents wanted. Because we vote for politicians to do what we don't want them to. Gosh. I've been misunderstanding democracy all these years.

There's also this: www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2016/02/hillary_clinton_told_the_truth_about_her_iraq_war_vote.html

There is no way you can put Hilary in the same boat as Trump. Trump is a misogynistic, racist, idiot. Hilary is and has been a politician who has incited and lead real positive change.

Fuck. The ignorance on this thread is mind boggling.

JudyCoolibar · 25/08/2016 09:14

I agree that if you actually look at Hillary Clinton's policies and her record as Secretary of State, she's a perfectly credible and electable candidate. There are absolutely no circumstances in which you could say that of Trump.

And after the EU referendum, I don't think we have any right to claim other countries should be ashamed.

littleprincesssara · 25/08/2016 10:47

Hillary is morally corrupt, and did pay to play as Secretary of State. Her email mess has never been resolved, and dozens of people who tried to stop her evil machinations are dead. Look up Vince Foster, for example.
Trump isn't great, but I'm a registered Republican. I will vote for him.
In return, I do think Nigel Farage has some great ideas.

So you believe everything Fox News and the Daily Mail tells you?

LurkingHusband · 25/08/2016 11:05

Wasn't the entire (federal) US system of government designed from the ground up to be able to withstand dickhead presidents ? Separation of powers etc ?

What can Trump actually do ?

Haven't the past four years been a signal to the world of everything that a US president can't do ?

And what does it say to the world when it turns out the people who have been foisting "democracy" on the rest of the world for five decades suddenly decide they don't like it up 'em at home, (to coin a phrase) ?

These, and many more questions are guaranteed to go answered and overlooked in a rush to sell more clicks, and generate rather than report the news.

AppleSetsSail · 25/08/2016 11:09

Yes. How dare she vote for what 89% of her constituents wanted. Because we vote for politicians to do what we don't want them to. Gosh. I've been misunderstanding democracy all these years.

NATO countries aren't supposed to go to war because their citizens are under the misapprehension that a country harbours terrorists. She should have been using her position to make a case against war. The fact that she wasn't reveals that she's ultimately a hawk.

I see the 'You're ignorant/you're a DM reader' posters are out in full force.

AppleSetsSail · 25/08/2016 11:10

Wasn't the entire (federal) US system of government designed from the ground up to be able to withstand dickhead presidents ? Separation of powers etc ?

Yes, but Obama has really pushed the boundaries with respect to federal powers.

BewtySkoolDropowt · 25/08/2016 11:21

To be fair - it was Americans that choose those two candidates in the first place, so they only have themselves to blame.

LurkingHusband · 25/08/2016 11:29

Yes, but Obama has really pushed the boundaries with respect to federal powers.

Which is what SCOTUS is for ?

Not having toured every nook and cranny of the US, I have to ask if there is the same monolithic view of the US civil war inside the US as there is outside ? Having read as widely as possible over the years, it seems to me there is a view - more academic than popular - that the actual issue of slavery was a proxy for a more generalised discontent over the creeping federalism of the post independence congress.

The old canard about not knowing history leads to repeats is significant here, because it seems Trump is not-so-subtly positing an anti-federalist line (hence the handy Farage "federal government is like the EU" bumper sticker moment).

This can be reflected against an alternative view of the English Civil War as a religious conflict, rather than political.

Personally, I think Eisenhower called it right in the 50s. But nobody listens - least of all to a general turned hippy Hmm

Will we see a re-run of 1972, when Nixon won, although (anecdotally) no one has ever admitted to voting for him Smile (which was the subject of an urban legend I first read in the early 80s !)

AppleSetsSail · 25/08/2016 11:39

Not having toured every nook and cranny of the US, I have to ask if there is the same monolithic view of the US civil war inside the US as there is outside ? Having read as widely as possible over the years, it seems to me there is a view - more academic than popular - that the actual issue of slavery was a proxy for a more generalised discontent over the creeping federalism of the post independence congress.

Yes, I'd say so. Ron Paul tapped into this nicely during the last election. There is a strong thread of anti-federalism in the US, which is understandable given the diversity & size of the country and the way in which the federal government has been spending money over the past decade (unpopular wars).

It's a fairly standard academic? anti-federal? conservative? liberal? libertarian? view that Lincoln used slavery as a pretext for saving the union and of course the federal government.