AIBU regarding DH's lack of boundaries with DD

[Livid66]

I have name changed because I'm so ashamed that this is my DH I'm talking about. My DC is 12 years old and she shares a room with our 10 year old DD. As you would expect, DD1 is becoming more self conscious over the changes in her body and I have now started to knock on their bedroom door before entering, especially at night or in the mornings when they're likely to be changing. DD mentioned to me two days ago that she feels uncomfortable because DH just barges in without knocking. So, around the dinner table that day, DD asked her father to knock first in future. He half- heartedly agreed to do it.
This evening, DD1 came into my room upset because DH had once again barged in and she was changing into her bedclothes at the time. When DH joined us, he explained that he had gone in to say goodnight to the girls as he will be starting a job tomorrow in another city and won't see her until Friday. He said he expected her to have changed clothes by then. When she reiterated her discomfort he was completely dismissive of her feelings, stating that it wasn't as if she was naked. She became more upset because she had expected an apology but instead had her feelings completely dismissed. Although I tried, he would not accept that she needs privacy but also that he was insensitive to her feelings. He went as far to say that he has no interest in empathising with children's feelings as it is not important. He feels that she should accept his right to go in without knocking. It disturbs me that I am married to an otherwise very intelligent man with who is also so fucking ignorant. How can I convince him that he's hurting our DD? I have no suspicions of any sexual intent btw. His attitude is similar in other contexts concerning our DC.

OK how about this approach.

1. she is not a piece of property she is a human

2. you want her to have healthy relationships in her adult life. Your DH is teaching her that a man has more right to her bodily autonomy than she has. Is this going to help her have an adult relationship in the future?

BabooshkaKate

God I know how you feel. We had a separate toilet and a second one down stairs but my mum always used the one next to the bathroom if I was in the bath and then come in to wash her hands leaving the bathroom door completely open (ajar would have been a bit better) so anyone walking past had a view of me and the only way to close it was to get out of the bath and then be fully naked standing in the door way.

And she NEVER remembered to close the door when she left.

Some parents are cunts.

Baboosh I am so sorry. That's utterly horrific. Why would someone be so vile.

Oh diddums. He's a "boy" so can't understand his near teenage daughter wanting privacy. He doesn't need to understand, just to accept it but if he doesn't understand he's clearly thick.

Glad you have come back OP. Was worried that you might be very upset and not feeling able to talk about it. Totally get it about work. Sending you good thoughts and

Babooshka that sounds sickening and genuinely traumatic. I am so sorry that your DM did this to you. Wishing you peace and healing

Please do not take for granted that his motives aren't sexual. Statistically someone is much more likely to be abused by a member of their own family or by someone known to them than by a stranger, and sadly it often happens right under the nose of other unsuspecting family members. I know a family where the daughter was sexually abused by her father and in that case the abuse actually started when she hit puberty. Hopefully his motives aren't sexual, but even then they could still be interpreted that way by school or social services etc. At best his behaviour is completely disrespectful, selfish and unfair and at worst it's potentially very concerning. Please find a way to drum into his head how unacceptable it is and get him to stop doing it, and if you can't then leave him, or make him leave. Your daughter already has one parent who she can't rely on to support and respect her feelings so it's even more important that she has you to advocate for her.

My mother sacrificed us on the altar of my father's ego many many times. No doubt she weighed it up snd always thought it was for the best or that she could make it better by supplementing it with other better narratives. I came out if it all confused and unhappy taking the message that I didn't count and that I couldn't trust my instincts (people swore black was white in my house).
My father probably has a narcissistic personality disorder. I keep as much distance from him as I can. I dislike him intensely. I loved my mother very much - she died 12 years sgo. I think she was a good person who did her best. But for the way she always put him above us I hate her sometimes and other times -since having children esp- I'm just baffled. My children come first for me. End of. It isn't a discussion. I don't get how that works differently for others.

Babooshka

"I've seen it all before' was exactly what my DM used to say, along with 'I made you' and 'I used to oil you all over every day'. Vom

She made my dad take the lock off the bathroom door so she could pee while I was showering, no matter how early I got up it would wake her and she would have to go then and there.

Yeah, she wonders why we're not close 'like other mums and daughters'. She also used to comment on my body (mostly how big my boobs were) to her friends while I was there, and even now will comment on my weight (I tell her to FO now though, and walk away if she doesn't stop).

Luckily my dad had boundaries or it would have been even worse.

OP - you need to stop this, now.

Agree with the wedge suggestion. I don't think it is 'the solution' per se but it sends two strong messages. 1. To DD, I hear you, I believe you, I will support you in defying any man overstepping your boundaries. 2. To DH, I am not just going to row with you I am going to stop you. Period. No negotiations, no trying to understand your POV, end of discussion.

He's her stepdad, not her owner. Protect her whatever the fall out maybe.

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread before posting. My dad used to do this to me when I was younger and I'm now NC with him (not just because of this but other ways he was a dick also) and understand how your DD must be feeling.
Is there some sort of consequence you can do that will make him learn sort of like you would do to a child - if your hit your brother you will have no tv time - sort of thing?

remember it's hard for them because they're boys!

What a load of sexist rubbish.

If this was the case why is he and various other men out violating the bodily autonomy of other men on a daily basis?????

Could it be the fact that they'd get the shit kicked out of them?
Or that they don't do it to other men because they're equals and women are less??

My Father/brother/BIL's/nephews/friends/DP/ Dp's nephews and random other male people that I meet on a day to day basis get it, so don't tar them with that brush

This is not a 'Oh not my Nigel' post this is a stop assuming all men are too stupid to understand the concept of bodily autonomy and stop excusing sexist behaviour of those who don't.......

I am not convinced this man would be dad of the year to a boy either. High on my list is a man who is emotional astute, and humble enough to apologise. Imagine the clashes with a b oy?

But it's worse that he's is bullying his girls in this particular way

The only problem this man has with his daughter 'growing up' is that she has found her voice and is directly challenging him by asserting her own individuality. This man does not see her in any sense as a separate person. To him she is an extension of his personality. She exists to meet his needs.

His need here is to feel he is master of all he surveys, he who must not be questioned or challenged.

You will get nowhere trying to reason with him because to him, all that matters about his relationship with all the family members is that he wins, always. To accept his own DD's wishes means he loses.

The stakes are high in this particular context. I presume that up to now the games have involved small potatoes, elements of everyday life that the losers have been able to suck up or accept without realising they have been run over by a train. This is a big one and someone has to lose. Your DH has made it clear it is not going to be him. So DD is faced with endless invasions of her privacy through her teenage years. It has to be him or her that wins. That is how he has set up all interactions with family members, in his own head.

Please understand what you are dealing with here, and realise that you and DD have to win this battle.

Games Narcissists Play.

And you are right, NotYoda, this man would run roughshod over a son too.

If - as a previous poster said - he is her stepdad rather than her real dad, I would find that even more concerning.

OP, what would happen if you had a full and frank conversation with him about how his behaviour could affect her in the future regarding consent and boundaries with other men etc?
You really shouldn't have to chose a particular angle of course but clearly telling him about respect and privacy alone is falling on deaf ears. Would it make a difference if you explained to him what it might be like for her if she finds herself in an uncomfortable position with a male and she finds herself confused if he is overly pushy or doesn't accept "no" as an answer. Would the idea of that scenario make a difference? Sorry if I've not explained that very well but I'm hoping you see what I mean

Thank you for the support, all

I don't contact her myself except for Christmas and birthdays. She calls me every couple of months for a "chat" which I keep as brief as possible. When I tried standing my ground and explaining things I would get a barrage of calls and screaming monologues about why my feelings were wrong and i must listen to her because mother and father is the ultimate authority I was also not allowed to have any complaints about anything because they err clothed and fed me through childhood and gave me pocket money and paid for me to go to university and allowed me to live with them after university whilst I saved money to move out.

It is much easier to answer her call and say "I'm fine thanks, how are you? Work is fine, DP is also fine, no I can't visit this weekend because I have plans, sorry you've just caught me making dinner, must dash, Ta-ra!"

Sounds like you have got some healthy boundaries in place now Babooshka. I am happy for you. This is quite a good site for fathers who genuinely want help working out how to change

m.raisingchildren.net.au/articles/privacy_teenagers.html

But it all depends on whether he wants to hear!

A friends dad used to do this to her. Her mum put a lock on her door. Fast forward 20 years and he got done for posessing indecent images. I often wonder if her mum knew on some level. It's not normal for a dad to insist it's ok to barge in. Sorry.

I remember my father barging into my bedroom at stupid o'clock one morning during the holidays when I was 15 (he was insomniac and he was up the whole fecking world had to be up).

I'd thrown the duvet off cos it was hot and my nightie must have ridden up. Not so much as a "good morning" but he starts ranting and raving that I'm wearing knickers in bed and what had he told me one thousand times before about wearing knickers in bed?? Scream, scream, rant, rant, name call. Then stomps off to fulminate about my disobediance and attitude with my mother.

I had my period. That was why I was wearing knickers. I didn't feel that at 15 I should have to report back my bodily functions/underwear choices to someone who barges into my room without so much as a knock at the crack of dawn.

My mother didn't understand why I was so upset and resentful. She felt I should have somehow managed to cut in to tell him about my period so he'd know I wasn't defying his orders about wearing knickers in bed. I was just being awkward and contrary minded by not immediately justifying my disobediance to daddy.

it's hard for them because they're boys!

The OP's husband is not a boy. Silly remark.

Yes to lock and yes to do not enter sign! YANBU! My nine year old autistic son is learning to knock before entering. He is not allowed in dd's room unless invited, my husband does the same. We are not a prudish family, both children are comfortable with nudity and their bodies. We are however a family that places enormous importance on personal space. Our six year old DD has become aware of her body and likes privacy to dress. She does sometimes still need help but it will be CD shouting her daddy or my carer to help her. Can you talk about the importance of setting boundaries and teaching your children respect? I am really shocked that he is refusing to comply or apologise when your daughter is showing distress. Its like he thinks he owns your daughter and her room..... My husband would be mortified if he thought he had upset our daughter like that!

My husbands family are rubbish at boundaries both fil and bil would walk into the room I was staying in, knowing fine well that I was just out of the shower. They got a good view of me too which made me feel really uncomfortable. Thankfully we don't see them anymore.

Boys don't know about boundaries? Bullshit. Ask them about urinals and they have plenty of boundaries.

Hey OP, how was your day? How are you feeling reading all of this?