Why do people still think it's ok to use racist terms re gypsies?

[GingerbreadGingerbread]

I am from a Romany gypsy family but a couple of generations ago. You would never have a clue if you met my parents and came to my family home as it was only on one parent's side and my mum and dad are wealthy and I am privately educated and have an academic career. However I am ashamed to say that I am nervous to tell anyone of my heritage. I am proud of my family and my gypsy grandparents who I was closer to than anyone in the world and spent the most time with whilst they were still alive. They were honest, principle led and amazing people. However I lost count of the number of occasions educated seemingly nice normal people come out with: "they are just disgusting gyppos aren't they?" Just now a colleague burst into my office saying someone had stolen his fork and they must be a "thieving pikey gyppo". Why is this seen as acceptable? It's disgusting and just makes me dislike the arrogant ignorant idiots! Are any MN willing to come forward and admit to using this language and explain why they find it acceptable?

Sorry, in my righteous indignation I forgot to address the OP's specific question about language. Of course the terms used by the OP's colleague are unacceptable. The word "gypsy" itself is offensive to many.

Anti-Traveller and anti-Romany sentiment does seem to be a prejudice that some people are comfortable both having and expressing. Sigh.

Veryproud

My ancestry and recent generations are widely described as Swarthy complexion, tan easily due to our origins.
It's impossible to go back far enough in records I'm afraid but my family name is thought to have come from Spain around 1700's.
I am the same and people are so jealous I tan easily.
I look like I work the land, I only have to be in the sun and I'm a lovely olive.

Why would that make you feel sick. Your relative was probably describing the DNA of a particular line/ family.

Actually I'm finding this thread slightly less racist than other thread about travellers on mumsnet.

Personally I have had good interactions with travellers in Ireland. I bloody hate prejudice of any kind having grown up in Northern Ireland with the ridiculous generalisations that were made about the other religious group, it was like being innoculated for life. We all should be entitled to be judged by our own deeds, not by the deeds of others.

DotForShort

Thank you you've summed up how I feel brilliantly! Like banging my head against a brick wall because every time this topic comes up the same old racist prejudice comes out: "They bring it all on themselves". So if these same posters had some problems with gun crime would they blame that entire ethnic group? What about the immigrants in Germany getting news coverage for being arrested- is their entire race at fault bringing it all on themselves? Once again this thread has reinforced why I keep my ancestry to myself. Some people are still incredibly bigoted against this group of people and can't separate some of their experience from the bigger picture. People who would consider themselves to be open minded can't see the damage and hurt they cause with their prejudice and sweeping generalisations and treating of this group as "less than". It's sad but predictable.

It really isn't okay, but as with ALL walks of life; the minority give the majority a bad name. This should not be the case, but it is.

veryproud tar with the same brush isn't racist!

An ambulance/paramedic was called to a fight at a gypsy camp in my town a few months back, while they were seeing to people the ambulance was smashed up, graffitied, and had (human) shit smeared on the door handles. Fucking disgusting.in my village some "travellers" tried to intimedate an old couple into selling their caravan that was parked out of site at the back of their farm and wasn't for sale! that is why people don't talk about them in a nice way as it is always stories like this you hear.

And it's also about perspective. Yes, you may have had unpleasant, repeated experiences by a certain section of society but how can that possibly mean that they are all like that?

It would be interesting to hear how the travellers/Roma feel like they are treated.

I remember a close friend of mine, a few years ago, banging on about travellers/roma and how they are dirty, etc. I think she forgot, for a minute, that my daughter (on father's side) was part Roma. She couldn't back-track quick enough. Silly cow!

By all means, get angry if people are breaking the law but don't resort to belittling someone's heritage.

I give up.

fatfecking

Maybe you could read the OP and subsequent posts from people who have said positive things? Or you could carry on believing what you believe because it gives you a chance to feel wrongly superior over other human beings which for some reason (insecurities, low self esteem, needing to feel more powerful?) is important to you in your life?

if breaking the law in an offensive way is part of your heritage, is that acceptable? If it's not part of the heritage, then why do it-why is it so prevalent

Do you say this shit about the numbers of African Americans in prison as well?

Gobsmacked.

OP, I think it is significant that many people cannot readily identify positive examples of the gypsy community. (For understandable reasons you perpetuate this lack by choosing not to identify yourself - with circular effects). I cannot think of another group for which that is true. Wherever a sub-set of another community behaves badly, it's easy to see that they are only a sub-set.

Secondly, we don't learn about gypsy or traveller culture at school. I know about all sorts of religious festivals, for the main religions represented in the UK and vignettes of other cultures through history, geography, literature etc. I don't recall learning anything about gypsy culture and am not aware of DCs learning it either.

Do you have any suggestions for good books, films, other ways for people to gain some awareness of gypsy lives and culture?

No one is going to come on here and say yes - i call them pikey gippo's because they're a rough dirty bunch of bastards and we dread them turning up because they cause havoc.

I'm going to be honest and say that that's what people DO say round here. Out loud. A lot. In 'real life'. In my experience MN is not particularly representative of the norm when it comes to this kind of subject.

YANBU.

You will get people defending their right to say these things. Romany gypsies have been persecuted throughout Europe for hundreds of years. Then people wonder why they seemed closed off to outsiders.

I'm not saying problems don't exist, because they do But it is racist to generalise and dehumanise a group of people due to their ethnic background. Personal experience or not.

Laiste have you read the thread? People have come on here and said it. How do you react when the people who live near say those things?

Hi everyone thanks for engaging with me on this subject. After a chat with DH this morning I have decided to leave this thread and not return to the subject. As some PP mentioned I do feel like I am " banging my head against a brick wall" and I'm not comfortable hearing too many of the racist, hateful views from people on here (or anywhere) as it's heartbreaking and also incredibly frustrating that in this day and age people still can't talk about their experiences without an undertone (or in quite a few cases not just on undertone) of this entire ethnic group being lumped in as one homogenous mass, with many negative and untrue connotations. I find it quite frankly appalling that so many are still happy, almost proud, to spout their bile - unaware or uncaring of the hurt and damage it could be doing, sometimes arguing to the hilt that their sweeping generalisations are correct. These people should be ashamed of themselves and I'm sure in years to come when this is hopefully more challenged and there is increased awareness people will be ashamed of the views they pedalled. They should be.

This thread has helped me though. I'm no longer going to actively hide my heritage from people. I've felt nothing but anger and then indifference towards those who pushed (or attempted to float - yes it's still possible to tell what you think even when you try to shroud it) their prejudiced views. If there are racist bigots in my circle I'd rather they out themselves so I can cut them out of my life, especially if people have no interest or capacity for understanding or just normal critical thought. I don't have any desire to put up with listening to the rubbish any more - partly why I can't return to the thread after this as some of the vicious bile (which I have reported) is more damaging than you think. But I have accepted some people don't want to change and need a reason to feel better than others - that is nothing to aspire towards.

Thank you so much to everyone who stepped forward in support I really really appreciate your words so very much.

op

My question to all of the ahem, interesting posts. If you are part of a group that is viewed negatively no matter what you do, how are you going to behave? I have full sympathy for anyone who ends up in "can't beat them, might as well join them".

I have also had some very negative experiences with Travellers, both personally and 2nd hand. However I didn't think that Travellers and Romany gypsies were actually the same (excuse my ignorance if wrong). The few Gypsies I have met both in The UK and Spain were in some cases quite disparaging of the Travelling community and their behaviour.
As for the word " pikey" I have used it but to me it means cheap and nasty and I wouldn't use it to describe a person at all. However, now I see it's a racist term I won't be using it again

Sorry but my experiences with the traveller community have been overwhelmingly negative. I grew up in a semi rural area and about two or three times a year travellers would set up in the local playing fields, lay by or cricket club car park and proceed to make shit of it. It would take several weeks before they were forced to move on and another several weeks to put right the damage and mess left behind. There was always an increase in petty theft and break ins, the local pub became a pretty unpleasant environment and generally everyone got pissed off with daily knocks on the door with aggressive offers to have your windows done or guttering cleared. There was not a single occasion when they left a site how they found it, not one. Hardly surprisingly that locals got a bit wary whenever they rolled into the village or used deregotatory terms to describe their behaviour.

at Proud "feeling sick" at typing 'tar with the same brush', and the suggestion that Dehli belly is a racist term. What rarefied planet are you on??

I find it a bit over the top that some people are against the term "gypsy" if used as a neutral description. Because if you start treading the euphemism treadmill, you'll have to use the new politically correct term every couple of years, because the racists have again turned the old term into an insult.

However, those other words you quoted are obviously insults, and I can't understand why anyone would think it is okay to use them - or to automatically say racist things when he has lost his fucking fork. That's just racism because he enjoys racism. Not as if it is very likely that anyone would steal a fork.

Sorry but my experiences with the traveller community have been overwhelmingly negative.

Yeah, well, I have a pretty low opinion of quite some ethnic/religious groups, but one can state that in resonable words, like an adult, there's no need to use racist insults.

But zerry, if breaking the law in an offensive way is part of your heritage, is that acceptable? If it's not part of the heritage, then why do it

Well, it is probably part of the heritage, even though not of the official one.
But by acting like it is an essential part of their culture, you just reinforce that behaviour.

Look, feminists know that men are disproportionately violent. Do we call them out on it? Yes. Do we act like being violent is an essential part of being a human being with a penis? No. Who does claim that a real man has to be violent? Hint: It's the people who want men to continue to be violent.
Of course men have much less excuses for violence than travellers have for theft, or black people have for drug dealing, men being the oppressor class, but that just means that oppressed groups have more reason to conform to your stereotypes of them than men do.

Erm, where the fuck have I used racist insults?