The fraud is awful but why isn't eveyone more worried about the children

[pleasemothermay1]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/15/mother-jailed-for-forcing-children-to-undergo-unnecessary-medica/

The fraud is 😳 But tbh the focus should be more of the harm she did to the children rather than the money ff this is very frightening

Poor children

And the poor GP new somthing was a foot but was ignored

Also
Things like ADHD is very diffcult

Is the child naughty and lacking boundires or has a really issue

My nephew has ADHD-apperntly-

However I am sure when my sister was getting him assessed she didn't tell the doctors about her repeatedly attempts to take her own life of the fact the my newphews witnessed two virus attacks on her one that nearly left her blind in one eye and also an attack of the after school club lady by her ex witch saw my nephew asked to leave the school

Or the fact that my sister has been battling depressions she just says to eveyone she dosent know why my newphews behaving like he is

Does this also mean that she will never have access to her children again? I do hope so.

lets hope so but if doctors were taken in by her one can only imagine that sw will they often tend to be more believing than they should

I was once accused of having Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy when DD1 was young. She had an on-going problem that none of us could trace and the doctor decided that this was what was really wrong. I found the doctors dismissed me because I was 'just the mother'. It turned out the problem was related to DD1's severe allergies, which the doctors themselves really didn't understand. They also dissed my concerns when I was potty training her and as a consequence, she has life-long bladder problems that could have been helped if diagnosed when I first brought it up. But no, I was 'just the mother' and therefore knew nothing. Maybe times have changed with regards to children's doctors (DD1 has a child of her own now) but I don't think so. This woman appears to be seriously ill in her mind. those poor children.

I met a parent last week who told me her kid was autistic. I questioned it as he was too young IME to have a formal diagnosis.
On closer questioning he hasn't even been referred to community Paeds/CAMHS (there is regional variation in who provides diagnosis/support) but his mother "thinks" he has autism so tells all HCps that he has it. I don't think this Mother was malicious she needed an excuse/explanation for her son's difficult behaviour.
If I hadn't clocked how young he was I would have just taken her work for it - complex children are complex and I don't have time to verify every diagnosis the parents tell me about.
If I hadn't questioned it it would have been recorded on our system as a definite and put on discharge letters etc. so could have been used to verify her story elsewhere.
I can see why procedures were carried out - there isn't a "test" that would show feeding difficulties - but if you have a poorly nourished child and a mothers who is insistent they struggle to feed the instinctive response isn't that the mother is purposefully starving them and making up the symptoms.
As a professional you have to tread so carefully - how many threads do we see on here with aggrieved parents who felt they weren't "believed" about their child's symptoms.

The mother is clearly ill. But how on earth could she con the medical establishment for so long? Normally you hear about mothers being sent away with a flea in their ear, told there's nothing wrong with their kids - and then sadly, on occasion, there really was something wrong with the child and they either die or are at best very ill.

The mother must have been very convincing.

I was shocked that consultants ignored the warning that a paediatrician gave several years earlier that the children might be at risk

Yes - doesn't surprise me though. Some doctors think they are god and won't listen to anyone further down the chain.

Surely the doctors are to blame for carrying all these operations out

Yeah, not the evil psycho mom. Ffs. Drs trust parents to take care of their kids in the majority of cases. If she slipped the kids something to make them repeatedly vomit or has traumatised them so much they choke and gag on their food, that isn't routinely screened for

Gasman

i have noticed a increase in people saying my child has undiagnosed xxxxx

And tbh that's not really right it gives the impression your child has special needs when no one thinks they have I even seen it on here

FFS, is this thread just going to be another stream of posts about how so many people are making up their kids disabilities to hide their inadequate parenting?

Yep.

Never mind though it's not racism or sexism so it's fine.

We're currently debating a gastostromy. The offer is largely based on our evidence of saying how he feeds. If they'd said oh we need him in for 3 days total observariom with us feeding him to make sure you arent exaggerating could you imagine the kickback and the man hours?

They should have listened to the GP but at my hospital trusting the parents is normally a first response

I always find this stuff tough because I dealt with a M by P case that was false at work many years ago. Obviously can't give details but ultimately it was not M by P and something quite significant that had been missed over quite a long time. Everytime I even hear about it I feel it stab the heart a bit!

"As a professional you have to tread so carefully - how many threads do we see on here with aggrieved parents who felt they weren't "believed" about their child's symptoms."

And yeah, there are good reasons for this. I had this experience with my second son with PND. I don't think it's that common for people to make up stuff - vanishingly rare in fact, so it is only right that in general you assume that the parent is a credible speaker about their child in so far as they are able to be. I am not really entirely sure this is fraud and not serious mental illness or disorder - the courts don't tend to be brilliantly understanding of nuance around this in some cases.

I think all of us have come across a parent who seems to get off on the drama of a child being ill. A mother I know makes the most enormous fuss over things like skinned knees or bruises from falling over, she is constantly rushing to the pharmacy for ice packs, or bandages, or letting her daughter come to school with a sling on because she says her shoulder/elbow/wrist hurts, picking up and carrying older children because they are "sore", every twinge is a fracture, sprain, twist. Her husband (and the father of the children) is super laid-back and just lets her get on with it for an easy life.

She's not making up illnesses - but certainly exaggerating the severity of illnesses and injuries. It's a fine line between that and inventing symptoms. And this woman although not a doctor does work in a related field so would know exactly what sort of things to fake if she was that way inclined.

"However I am sure when my sister was getting him assessed she didn't tell the doctors about her repeatedly attempts to take her own life of the fact the my newphews witnessed two virus attacks on her one that nearly left her blind in one eye and also an attack of the after school club lady by her ex witch saw my nephew asked to leave the school

Or the fact that my sister has been battling depressions she just says to eveyone she dosent know why my newphews behaving like he is"

Actually having done a lot of this stuff that can be a major issue if it doesn't emerge but it usually does. There are several aspects to the assessment that explore all of these things sensitively.

And you know, none of those factors mean that he doesn't have ADHD, they actually increase the risk not mean that it is a misdiagnosis. Childhood trauma and maternal mental distress are very important factors in the diagnosis of many childhood mental health and behavioural difficulties.

A lot of diagnosis of gastro problems and digestive problems is very subjective and for children does rely on reporting by the parents.

We've been offered a gastrotomy based on weight loss and my reporting of his issues. He has another stoma based on my reporting. When that stoma was formed the gold standard test wasn't available in my state (fortunately when it was available, it confirmed we had made the right decision because it would have ripped me apart to have been wrong).

There are few tests for a lot of these conditions. Some of the tests are very invasive. And for children with honest scared parents, reporting should be enough if the symptoms match up. I know I could have had a lot more medical attention for my kid if I had pushed for or even accepted some of what has been offered and I can see how this woman once she was on the merrygoround did it.

And I think a thread about myths about autism would be great. I have three and all of them are very different and present very differently in different settings.

i have noticed a increase in people saying my child has undiagnosed xxxxx

And tbh that's not really right it gives the impression your child has special needs when no one thinks they have I even seen it on here

If this thread is going to turn into one where people wheel out tales of ADHD/asd being used as an excuse for bad parenting etc, can I just also add, wrt the post above, that there are lots of children and adults without a diagnosis. My son has many individual 'special needs' but over all he has an 'undiagnosed genetic condition' - this is not a made up thing, please look at the website for SWAN UK www.undiagnosed.org.uk/.

Things are not as black and white as many people seem to think when it comes to medical and developmental issues.

But what matters surely is whether someone is having functional difficulty with doing what they need to do in life and not what name you give it.

A "special need" is a need related to not being able to do those things you need to do and being disadvantaged relative to peers without that need.

If you have hugely significant social skills issues, whether that's because of language disorder, autism, childhood abuse and neglect, a developmental condition, a genetic condition, an attention or conduct related disorder is... well, kind of irrelevant if you're not living it.

If people are saying that a child has undiagnosed x they're using shorthand usually for "my kid is having massive issues that I can't manage without professional help but to be honest I don't want to get into the nitty gritty with you and debate what I should and shouldn't be doing, I just want to inform you to give you the option to choose to be less judgey about my experience which you don't really understand".

(Sorry I mean the above in relation to people judging people for "saying" their child has special needs when they "don't" because there hasn't been an official diagnosis).

hazey I know several Swan children. It's one of the hardest things for the parents, not knowing what/why. Are you doing the Genome testing study?

I often say DD has undiagnosed autism. That's because we are still waiting for a diagnosis. She's had the assessment, I've had the report back where it strongly suggests she has it but until I get that letter or report from the paediatrician then it's not diagnosed. I've been battling for 6 bloody years for this. On her assessment she was achieving 20% (percentile) maximum on the social skills and understanding tests. She's a very bright child but very logical. She has no filter (oh dear god, she has NO filter!), no social skills, no understanding of things we take for granted and struggles a lot. I hope the diagnosis will help her transition to high school in a couple of years.

Poltergoose I'm only going by what a go told me. It seems that there are conflicting stories from different sources. I can't see how a sleep issues that requires medication..would be any different in.one place to another. I was told they can not control there behaviour and schools will not refer unless they see the same behaviour. I pleaded with my sons primary but they refused because they were not seeing the same. It wasn't until he went to secondary we got referred. So please explain how this works.

Gp. Stupid phone.

So what you do think was happening in primary BITCAT? That your son didn't have autism then, or that he was masking at school?

I think there's a few factors at play here.

It depends on whether she made up the conditions totally or exaggerated minor complaints.
I know I've walked out of a doctors feeling relieved that dc hasn't got to take it further, and other times relieved I've been taken seriously and it is being taken further. My GP tends to believe mums as he says as a standard rule if the mum says she thinks there's something wrong it is worth investigating.

2 of my dc this year have been investigated (nothing more major than blood tests though) for things that have no proof-or certainly I could have got the dc to fake, and are mostly on my say. In one case it has gone down on DLA application (although as a side issue, the main issue isn't fakable!)
I am very thankful that the GP took me seriously for both situations because although neither has turned out as bad as it might be, if it had been worst case then time was very much of the essence. Ds was fasttracked in for a paed appointment-nothing except what I said, some of which was along the lines of "he just isn't right and I'm not happy."

However I do know of parents who have tried to fake and get their dc involved in faking for school applications. I knew the SENCO at a local junior school where the nearest secondary was failing and they all wanted to go to the further one with a catchment of about 50yards.
She said they would have 2-5 (out of 60) children, always pfb, who usually around summer term in year 5 parents would come to her apparently concerned and wanting them statemented. Having talked to the teachers they would say there was no issue. When this was fed back to the parents it was not uncommon for the child to apparently suddenly produce behavioural issues.
They usually went for autism spectrum simply because it is hard to diagnose etc. although they had one child who got fairly far along on visual impairment before it was found to be faked. They have had conversations with the child where the child says something along the lines of "My mum says that if I don't behave like this/tell Dr this then I will have to go to the rubbish school."

She used to solve the issues usually by telling the parents that she has happy to investigate, however they had to realise that it was a long process and the statement wouldn't be through before applications had to be in for secondary. Most issues disappeared overnight from that.

The problem with ASD is that it is variable on where the child is so they have to listen to the mum. It also varied by child. It's not uncommon for a child to be able to hold it together when out, but really kick off at home. If Drs don't believe that is happening, then far more children who need the support won't get it than parents will fake it.

Should we tell doctors to ignore parental concerns on the back of this one case? Not at all. Far more children would be hurt by lack of investigation.
Should lessons be learnt. Yes, but that still doesn't mean avoiding investigating potential serious issues that only mum has seen.