Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

The fraud is awful but why isn't eveyone more worried about the children

178 replies

pleasemothermay1 · 15/08/2016 21:49

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/15/mother-jailed-for-forcing-children-to-undergo-unnecessary-medica/

The fraud is 😳 But tbh the focus should be more of the harm she did to the children rather than the money ff this is very frightening

Poor children

And the poor GP new somthing was a foot but was ignored

OP posts:
BerriesandLeaves · 15/08/2016 22:55

There was another case like this in Devon. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8472655.stm

Owlytellsmesecrets · 15/08/2016 22:58

I know a mum who'd DS has autism and she's a bit MBP .. He could reflux and vomit for attention so he had a nissens where the child can no longer vomit or even burp.... No real requirement other than cleaning up puke!
My DS does this too ... He has severe autism and sensory issues. We go through loads of clothes but every GA is a risk !

Pinkerbeller · 15/08/2016 23:04

This is so awful, where was the children's father in all this? According to that report they were living as a family despite her claiming as a single parent, was he complicit in it all?

elliejjtiny · 15/08/2016 23:12

Those poor poor children.

I don't understand how she did it though. My son has autism and it took a lot to get his diagnosis.

DoinItFine · 15/08/2016 23:24

I said pretty much exactly that when I heard this on the news earlier.

They threw to someone talking about the costs of the fraud and I was Confused because the harm done to those children is by the gravest crime in this.

I also don't think it's right to presume she is mentally unwell and less worthy of blame as a result.

That is not what the court found.

LyndaNotLinda · 15/08/2016 23:29

And what about the dad? He was living there. Why isn't he being prosecuted?

Timetogetup0630 · 15/08/2016 23:35

I knew someone who was constantly inventing medical problems, learning difficulties, special dietary needs and psychological problems for her three children. She worked in social services, and was a respected member of her community.
The children went to different schools so no one in authority saw the pattern.....
She was definitely unbalanced.
Kids are Ok now but they put up with a hell of a lot.

DailyMailEthicalFail · 15/08/2016 23:42

This is all very odd.

Surely young children would not have gastronomy tubes fitted without proper tests over a lengthy period?
Surely the HCP's would have assessed the children's symptoms and not just taken the mothers word for it?
Christ, if I go to the GP, never mind take my kids, it is hard to get them to listen or offer minor treatment, yet alone operations, without evidence over a period of time that it is 'warranted'.
Just bizarre.

Feel very very sad for the children.

BITCAT · 15/08/2016 23:53

Yet I can't get them to do any testing on my son who has suffered chronic constipation for all his life. All we get is medicines thrown at us. No scans..not so much as an ultrasound..it's all wrong
Surely you don't operate on a child without any tests..I don't understand. Unfortunately I know of several parents who claim there child has Autism or Adhd and they don't..because they are totally different kids and do not act that way at my house..a doctor once told me they can not control there behaviour and change from one place to.another because they are not in control of it. I do know kids who have Autism and adhd and it is a real condition and I know it's hard for those who are genuine to get diagnosis and I'm not trying to downplay those parents at all because I realise most parents want the best for their kids and it's not easy. I'm just saying it does happen in some cases.

LyndaNotLinda · 16/08/2016 00:09

BITCAT - children with autism (and ADHD but to a lesser extent) can present very differently in different environments.

There is also a big difference between saying your child has a condition and them having a diagnosis.

BITCAT · 16/08/2016 00:53

Not according to my gp. Who wouldn't even refer my son. Only when he started secondary would they listen..now appears he has aspergers.
I know a child whose mother says he doesn't sleep but then sleeps perfectly fine at my house..he was given medication for sleeping when it's not him that's the problem it's his mothers parenting that's at fault. He knew we wouldn't allow him to.get out of bed at 3/4 and come downstairs to play. He only tried it once and didn't do it again. She would give in because he would shout and scream..never did that here either because he never got attention for it here.
This was a parental issue not an issue with the child. He would sleep till 7/8 here..his mum claimed he was up at 4/5 at hers..baring in mind he was 6/7 at the time and she had him in bed for 6pm..then moaned he was awake early. He had what 10rs sleep...that's normal. He went to bed at 7.30 at ours up at 7/8. Nothing abnormal about that.

jacks11 · 16/08/2016 01:39

Poor children, they have been harmed by the person who is supposed to love, nurture and protect them- and all for money and attention. I hope they get the help, support and love they need from now on, although obviously you can't undo the damage that has been done.

However, I think some people are being a bit harsh on the Dr's here. As with all walks of life, some are better than others but I don't understand "they never take people seriously". I don't recognise this- sometimes what patients want/think they need (especially in terms of scans or medication) isn't necessary. Sometimes they are right and the Dr has missed something. None of us go to work every day intending to ignore, misdiagnose or upset our patients. If you are unhappy with your current Dr, then seek a second opinion.

Clearly, big mistakes were made here and it's clear the specialists missed an opportunity to pick things up earlier when the GP raised concerns. When the GP (or ? general paediatrician- very different things but called GP and gen paed in the article) flagged this family up it's is clear that little was done- as the judge said, at the very least the specialists concerned could have contacted her to find out why she felt things weren't as they seemed. And yes, not sure how she managed to get an autism diagnosis attached to her child without a formal assessment. I'm guessing she told them it was diagnosed previously and nobody checked that she was telling the truth.

All that said- as a Dr if a patient, or a parent of a young child (or a patient who has communication difficulties for whatever reason), tells me they have x, y or z symptom then I'm generally inclined to believe them unless I have good reason not to. Clearly, if the symptoms described are compatible with a particular diagnosis and what is described could be a serious condition, I'd have to have pretty good evidence that this was a lie before I would ignore it. It is not unusual, for instance, for patients with persistent and troublesome pain to end up have operations to exclude pathology that may be missed on scans or other tests- e.g Diagnostic Laparoscopy. For a certain % of patients we know these symptoms are caused by largely benign conditions like Irritable bowel syndrome or perhaps a functional illness. In this patient group, we accept they may undergo a technically unnecessary procedure in an attempt to provide clarity in terms of diagnose and also reassurance for the patient. It's not as easy as you might think.

FrancineSmith · 16/08/2016 01:52

Wdigin I also know someone who did this - would regularly turn up at gp or a&e in extreme pain and ended up with 2 pointless operations. She loved their drama.

She now has children and miraculously, all her ailments have cleared up but they have allergies and all sorts that need constant attention. Thankfully nothing as serious as in this case, but I know I'm not the only one close to her alert to the possibility of this taking a darker turn.

Jizzomelette · 16/08/2016 01:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Vickyyyy · 16/08/2016 01:57

All that said- as a Dr if a patient, or a parent of a young child (or a patient who has communication difficulties for whatever reason), tells me they have x, y or z symptom then I'm generally inclined to believe them unless I have good reason not to. Clearly, if the symptoms described are compatible with a particular diagnosis and what is described could be a serious condition, [b]I'd have to have pretty good evidence that this was a lie before I would ignore it[/b]

But surely, you (or not you, whoever was investigating further) would have to have some kind of proof that an operation was needed before they actually operate?

For example, I had been having massive issues with pain in my ribs. GP suspected it was my gallbladder due to symptoms. I would not have just had the gallbladder removed without having the tests (that I did have) to show gallstones surely? Just for the symptoms presenting themselves?

I cannot get my head round this whole story at all..however I do realise doctors in general would be in an awkward position with parents inventing illnesses for their child.

Vickyyyy · 16/08/2016 01:57

Spectacular bolding fail there, hope its still easy to read :/

Vickyyyy · 16/08/2016 01:59

It was all of her children she did it to and she got away with it because she chose diseases that there aren't actually any tests for.

--

Ah this makes a bit more sense. I didn't actually realise that there would be illnesses that required large surgeries that there wasn't at least some kind of test for. :S

BananaInPyjama · 16/08/2016 03:00

Its sad. I really wonder how she got away with such invasive procedures for the kids.
I know someone whose child was diagnosed as failure at weeks old. Immediate thought was child abuse/neglect. A raft of social workers and expert practitioners and the child has a rare disorder which means she can only eat via a feeding tube- but it took a lot of medical in hospital observation to reach that diagnosis.

LittleMissUpset · 16/08/2016 03:40

I saw this on the news and was shocked, especially as I know quite a few parents who have really struggled with their children with Autism to go through the long process.

We are awaiting an appointment to see about possible autism, having a child with SN is upsetting sometimes as you see them struggle with things and want things to be easier for them!

Those poor children are going to be affected forever and there is already so much stigma and judgement around autism etc that this won't help.

HicDraconis · 16/08/2016 05:53

Sadly I know of many cases where a parent has turned up to ED repeatedly concerned about their child's odd symptoms - blood tests, scans all normal but because the parent gives a good story of appropriate pain in the appropriate place, with associated symptoms (either gastric, or urological) the child is then listed for a surgical procedure to try and elucidate the cause. Not all parents have the best interests of their children at heart, and some parents seem to really need the support and attention they get when their children are undergoing medical procedures - hence Munchausen's by proxy being a valid diagnosis. The big difficulty here is knowing who's a concerned parent with a child that has something wrong - we just don't know what - and who's a parent with MBP and a healthy child.

Most of the time the operations are relatively benign - diagnostic laparoscopy, colonoscopy / gastroscopy, appendicectomy - but occasionally they can be more significant (major general or gynae surgery). I've never known a parent manage to fake a neurological or cardiac condition requiring surgery but general and gynae symptoms are more nebulous.

And for every "this child was healthy but the parent insisted there was something wrong to claim benefits" headlining story, there's the opposing "doctors didn't believe me and now my young child has terminal cancer" headline story (see the recent MN guest post!) - it is increasingly difficult in this consumer-is-always-right driven society for doctors to walk the very fine lines they are being asked to. Invariably extra tests, some invasive and some requiring a general anaesthetic, are going to be requested for any child where the parents insist the child has concerning symptoms.

Not that I condone at all what has been done to these children - far from it - but it's not as clear cut for the medical profession as it might seem. Most consultations start with an unspoken assumption that the patients are telling the truth about their symptoms.

pleasemothermay1 · 16/08/2016 09:29

It took me 5 years a numerous visits to gyne to get my fibroids removed and even then they didn't re ally want to wanted to try yet stronger pain relief

So I am just baffled

OP posts:
PolterGoose · 16/08/2016 09:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DodgySpot · 16/08/2016 09:47

I think it's time we had an 'Autism myths debunked' thread or article.

LyndaNotLinda · 16/08/2016 09:58

Yes Dodgy! Perhaps we could give it to clueless GPs as well as having something on here.

HisDraconis - that's a really interesting post. Thanks

CoraPirbright · 16/08/2016 10:02

When dd was tiny, she went through a phase of crying when she peed. Having a history of cystitis (something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy) I hurried off to the doc (yes I know Hmm pfb and all that but cystitis is ghastly). They were fully prepared to give her all sorts of invasive tests and one of those procedures where you swallow some horrid stuff and then get scanned. I thought that was a bit much for a one year old and went for a second opinion - turns out dd just had a little raw bit of nappy rash in a crevice I hadn't spotted which was stinging with the urine.

The purpose of this anecdote is that if you appear to be reasonably sensible, doctors will try and help and suggest all sorts of procedures.

I heard about this story on the news last night and they said that the woman didnt appear to have any mental problems and it was just greed. If this is the case, I am so glad she has been imprisoned. Does this also mean that she will never have access to her children again? I do hope so.

Swipe left for the next trending thread