To be angry that MIL may have indoctrinated my child?

[FruitCider]

I've been away for just under a week volunteering abroad and got home this morning. My mother in law (reverend) has been to stay with my partner whilst I went away. I'm completely atheist, partner is agnostic. MIL tried to give me a nativity set at Christmas for DD and a book full of bible stories, I declined and said I didn't want my daughter exposed to religion by people with a bias to a particular religion until she was 7/8.

I've come home today and my 3.5yo DD is continuously talking about Jesus, how God made the planet and told me I should thank god that my journey was safe. My partner says MIL had not mentioned religion when he was at home but he had to leave DD with MIL on Tuesday and Thursday whilst he went to work.

I'm absolutely RAGING! AIBU to be this angry? I literally want to banish MIL from my house and tell her she is not allowed contact with my DD for the foreseeable future.

Also is my DD likely to forget about God as she grows up if it's not mentioned again? Or is she now indoctrinated forever?

Sorry to those who may find this post offensive, I just wanted my DD to make her own mind up when she was old enough to understand that religion is a belief and there is no firm evidence for a God. She could have decided herself to be a Christian and I would have accepted that.

You need to be aware that the reality is likely to be that you don't have that much choice about schools. In many areas the reality is that you have to opt for either your nearest school or a less popular school that may have spaces because it has a poor reputation. You won't necessary be able to shop around for one that deals with the act of worship to your satisfaction.

Aurynne For all those who say it's not a big deal, and OP should get a grip, I assume you would be equally happy for an atheist person to take the opportunity of spending some time with the children of a very Christian/Muslin/Jewish family and spend the whole time telling them that God does not exist, that it's just a fantasy that some deluded people believe in, that when you die you just disappear, that bad things happen to good people and that praying is useless. I am sure any religious family would be completely fine with this.

iirc, the OP has just been volunteering in the Jungle. Given that she has made it back in one bit, one can assume she must have kept very schtum about her atheism and her militant feminism, and one also hopes that she hasn't been indoctrinated by people practising their religion.

Fwiw, I was taken to church from a very young age; have been both Christened and confirmed. I have a degree in Theology and my subject is RE. Yet, here I sit at 50, and have been an agnostic since I was 15 or so. My Mum is very Christian, I often left ds with her for a whole week at a time from an early age...he is now 20 and an agnostic verging on the atheist (you can blame Pascal for that).

It is daft to expect an ordained minister to be quiet about their day job, and for your mil not to talk about her working life with your dd. You say you are a feminist - well, there is an example of feminism for you. The Methodists have been ordaining women since 1974, and were admitted as deacons from the 1890s, far earlier than the CofE got around to it.

Sorry scaryteacher, I think you've mistaken me for somebody else... I never said I was a feminist and have no idea what you're talkinng about (volunteering in the jungle??).

And what exactly does that have to do with other family members respecting the education the parents want to give their child? Or expressing their beliefs as beliefs instead of fact?

Oh sorry you were referring to the OP, I saw my post pasted there and thought you were referring to it?

Aurynne I quoted your post to show that the atheist OP wouldn't have taken the opportunity to do what you described, i.e : decry those who believe in God, as iirc correctly she was volunteering in the Jungle (the Calais camp), even though she is atheist. Did she tell those she was volunteering to help that their belief is wrong?

Thanks for the clarification scaryteacher. I do not understand what volunteering has to do with religion though. Why did you feel the need to clarify that the OP volunteered in the jungle "despite she was an atheist"? Is there any reason atheists should not volunteer? And she went there, I assume, to help with basic needs, not in order to "spread atheism". I wish most religious volunteers did the same.

And what do you define telling a child that God does not exist as "decrying religion", but a MIL telling her DGC that God does exist is not "decrying atheism"?

*why, not what

The two ordained ministers in my family seem to cope just fine not talking to me and my children about religion unless the subject is broached, just like the rest of my religious family and friends. Probably just like the OP too, who I expect doesn't feel the need to talk about her atheism to most people.

My children are teenagers now so can hold their own, but the only person (in my family) who has had god is true and the stories about him in the Bible happened as stated with them is my mother who isn't generally very good at judging social situations. It made them both very uncomfortable indeed, but they have been brought up to be polite to their grandmother so they just moved on the conversation as quickly as they could.

I have 3 grown up dc all attended C of E church regularly with their dad, all attended a Catholic school (at my behest) and a Salvation army youth group (as we wanted to give them access to other faiths) we have family members ranging from orthodox jewish and Budists to my Agnostic parents. None of which has had the slightest effect on my 3 Dc as adults all of whom are agnostic, I have tried to give them exposure to all kinds of faiths as youngsters and they have chosen for themselves which I am absolutely okay with :)

Me and dh are agnostic dd has decided she quite likes the idea of God...(I think she just likes the idea of heaven as sadly she 'knows' so many people there...)
She's 10 she has 3 close friends at school all 3 follow different faiths and she is lucky enough to be invited to celebrate with their families the big' occasions.

She very much enjoys the party feeling some of the celebrations have and will often question what they are celebrating and why.

The RE they do at her school is very well balanced and dd is aware that people 'believe' different things and that's ok, and that mummy and daddy think that religion has some very nice stories in it and that's ok too.
We have only had one Instance where a boy in her class wouldn't be her friend because she wasnt from x religion..... Which she told him was a stupid rule as they are 10...and she knows loads about Pokémon so it's his loss.

It's the weekend! It's time to paartaaay! This thread will keep me entertained for a while

Religion was a non issue in Calais. No-one asked me, apart from my room mate (who I didn't know until I arrived). I told her I was atheist, she replied she was Muslim and prays 5 times a day but wouldn't be able to do so in Calais so she wanted to make the time up at night. I moved the beds so she had space to fit her prayer mat on the floor facing Mecca and chose to shower at this time so she had some peace and quiet and was able to pray without an audience. Actually it came in very handy in the camp as she can speak Arabic! But religion (or lack of) was a non issue in the camp. None of the residents asked my religion, they were more interested in whether I could help them, including a cheeky unaccompanied 10 year old asking if he would fit in the boot of my car after I gave him a football

Did she actually call you a whore? As in 'you are a whore'?

Or did she just quote something biblical in general terms about having children out of wedlock which you took to apply, in her eyes, to you?

Because any woman who outright called me a whore to my face would not be in my life at all, ever again, least of all having the opportunity to look after my child for 5 days straight.

She actually called me a whore. It was when she came to stay when I was 16 weeks pregnant. Me and my partner were arguing (I wanted a new mattress as I had bad SPD, he couldn't see what the fuss was) and MIL kept coming in the bedroom saying "I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to upset you". 5 or 6 times I said calmly it was nothing to do with her, and to go and make herself a cup tea. But eventually the pregnancy hormones got the better of me and I roared "JUST SHUT UP, GO AWAY, ITS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU!!!".

I apologised immediately but MIL went into my kitchen and very loudly rang her husband ( not FIL mentioned earlier) a and started saying I was feral and had no self control in front of me. I told her to get off the phone and to stop bitching about me in my own house. She then squared up to me and started pointing in my face, telling me I had to respect her as she is MIL. I laughed and told her respect has to be earned. She then said "look at you, you horrible whore!..." I interrupted her and grabbed her bag and kicked her out of my house unsurprisingly.

After DD was born I've made a concerted effort to be nice to her. But she has been annoying to be honest. Reusing my tea bags when she stays as she does that at home as she is too tight to pay for a new one each time, she never washes my mugs properly so I have to bleach them all and I'm certain she is selective when she uses the bathroom in the morning in an attempt to make me late for work. She also spends all day making various calls to her family and talks to them like they are all morons.

She is also one of the most racist people I have ever met, she refers to the people in Calais as cockroaches and keeps trying to convince me that we need to shut the borders as everyone living in Calais are Daesh. Her own mother was a refugee so I find her lack of empathy shocking. She told me I would be gang raped the morning I drove to France.

Annnd.... Breathe!

Surely she will be "exposed" when she starts school anyway? myself and children's dad are both very much non religious but out 2 (5 & 7) talk about God and other Christian related things all the time and tell me that's what they believe. I challenge them slightly, I say some people believe and some don't etc. I don't believe in "forcing" a child into any form of religious upbringing and believe they should make their own mind up when they're old enough but I think you're making too big a deal of this

I think yanbu regarding your op. Your Mil should not be telling your dd the things she has. I suspect she insisted on babysitting so she could have the opportunity to get alone time with your dd to 'save her'.

I'm not sure either of you come out of the other story well. Why couldn't you and dp argue about mattresses when she wasn't there, as it was clearly upsetting her. (sure she should have sat quietly listening to you arguing from the other room, but she obv felt awkward and wanted to help - however misguidedly).

You shouldn't have shouted at her or taken the phone from her. Though it wasn't diplomatic of her to have been saying you were feral, but tbf she was on her own in your house when you yelled at her and she probably wanted support.

Awkward all round really...

Ah,you don't her anyway...now I get it

I quite like my FIL but he does have some views DH and I strongly disagree with. None of his grandchildren think what he says is true, and now my elderly are teens they laugh out his nonsense after each visit

I didn't take her phone off her! I told her if she was going to ring her husband and bitch about me, she needed to do it outside and not in my house. This was after she had been on her phone for 20 minutes calling me all sorts of names in an open plan kitchen. Yes, we could have waited to have the argument but I was sobbing in pain when I woke up and felt my need was pretty urgent!

I think the phrase, "You are welcome in my house, God isn't" might be appropriate.

I'd be angry too. About the lack of trust and the indoctrination.

I think an examination of creation myths might be useful - granny believes a single god created the earth etc. Some people think it was a raven, others believe x y z - which story do you like?

Greek and Egyptian gods could also be interesting, lots of stories there.

Or you could just act puzzled and get her to tell you about it. Why should I thank Jesus for a safe journey? Did he build the aeroplane?

Op the above you describe sounds awful (calling names etc) and for that I'd say you have a Dh problem.

The religious aspect, j wouldn't bother about so much. I was brought up with incredibly religious grandparents who insisted we prayed with them when we visited from an early age and we would always take time to go to church with them on a Sunday when we visited or they visited us. It is a big part of their lives.

I didn't believe. When we got married my gp's couldn't come. We went to see them the weekend after the wedding and g-ma insisted on the Sunday we went to church and had our wedding blessed by her vicar. It didn't harm me, despite not believing. But it made her happy that she'd arranged something.

I enjoy church with her when I can. It's nice to feel part of a community.

I was recently in Jerusalem and went to the church of the holy Sephulcre and saw the relic, Jesus' tomb, the rock he was laid on the true cross and his bones.

I was completely overwhelmed by it all. So many people who truely believed and who were reduced to tears to see it.

We also visited the western wall and again to see such open but private displays of faith by the Jewish people was amazing!

It's made me rethink that maybe I should believe.

I don't think there's anything wrong with your mil giving your dd bible stories. I had bible stories when I was young. I liked them. Some are really nice stories. And I think as long as you emphasise that they are stories it'll be fine. unless it really has indoctrinated dd and she'll be signing up to a nunnery tomorrow

I think Mil should respect yout wishes. Just because she is a minister, she doesn't need to talk about it all the time. I have a very good friend who is a minister and he never "brings God into the room" so to speak, unless I do. We can manage hours and hours talking and not once is God mentioned, because he respects that I don't want to talk about it.

I think your reaction to her going against your wishes is valid. I think you may be over reacting about her influence of your dds religion.

Fruit

Your second enormous drip feed makes MIL sound horrid.

She hasn't indoctrinated your child. She is, however, racist and cruel to people in a desperate situation.

I'd have more of an issue with my child being around that.

Blimey OP.

She called you whore and is openly racist but you are getting upset about her reusing tea bags and not washing up mugs properly.

This is all such a strange combination of the bizarre and the mundane.

I commented on the first page but haven't rtft. I still do not believe that your mil has any right to foist her beliefs onto your children, regardless of their age. My files has some pretty shit beliefs about immigrants and I've told him before not to talk about his political views around my 5 year old dd. Yes, she is far too young to understand but if she parroted his opinion that 'it's because of the bloody Polish!' publically I'd be furious. Your mil has no right to tell your dd that you were kept safe on your journey by God. She might disagree with you, but doesn't have to talk about religion at all. How would she have treated you if you were a practising Jewish or Hindu? Undermining your faith, or lack of it, is not on. I have a colleague who is a devout Christian who puts prayers and literature on people's desks unsolicited, even when politely asked not to. It isn't fair or right and if someone put a Koran or creationist literature on his desk he'd be outraged. Your mil needs to back off. She can explain to your dd what she does for a job when she is older. It is not her responsibility to 'save' your dd or educate her about Christianity. If your dd goes to a state schools she will learn about all religions. I'm a head of year in a state schools. We focus on moral and social issues not religion in every other area of the curriculum except RE, where all faiths and beliefs are taught. Your dd will get balance at school. Your mil isn't offering that is she?