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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want to shop my aunt for being a fucking vulture...

103 replies

Fatmomma86 · 09/08/2016 09:55

...but I don't even know if or how I can?

Background: My aunt A just died a few days ago in hospital.

My Dm, aunt B and aunt C took turns taking care of Aunt A for years. Though for a while aunts B&C were not allowed in her bungalow (Aunt A suspected them and one of their husbands of pilfering from her stashes on money) Dm tried to get her to put it all safe in a bank account but she still kept large amounts at home.

The rest of the family is angry at aunt B and aunt C for making her last days agony. She was on palliative care and had essentially been knocked unconscious with morphine. Her legs were ulcerated and the nurses had stopped dressing them to spare her the pain as she was near the end.

Aunts B and C went into hospital on her own once and made a huge fuss about the doctors trying to kill aunt A and how dare they not take care of her, prompting the doctor giving her something to bring her out of a coma.

Her last days were deeply unpleasant Angry

Fast forwarding to today: Aunt B + C have produced a will. Essentially leaving everything bar a couple of bits to them and their husbands.

The thing is this will is scribbled on a piece of paper, in different coloured inks and also crossed out bits. Aunt B is emphasizing how this will is years old. Her and aunt C are 'witnesses' and executers.

There is a mention of lots of jewellery items on the will. Aunt B and Aunt C told my Dm they went to the bungalow to look for it but it's all gone now and they don't know where.

Dm knows there was an inexpensive necklace that aunt A wanted her to have for sentimental reasons that has apparently disappeared in to thin air.

There is no mention of a sizeable amount of money in the will that Aunt B and C claim aunt A 'wished' them to split. Only mention of money is three sets of £200 to their husbands and my Dm.

I've had Dm here in floods of tears this morning not knowing what to do. I've told her to go and get a copy of this 'will' but after that I'm not sure what it is we can do?

I know people say it all the time but it really isn't about the money, it's devastated my mum that her sisters have done this and I don't want the thieving fuckers to get away with it.

OP posts:
Bomb · 10/08/2016 09:47

Oh fucking hell indeed... SadAngrySadAngryThat's awful but I'm not surprised that your Mum wants to ignore it all.

I really don't have any advice other than Wine

I hate passive aggressive shite with a passion but what about some more subtle emails under the guise of getting information together or something.

StillDrSethHazlittMD · 10/08/2016 09:53

Your mum may (sadly) want to pretend this hasn't happened - her choice, although I can't agree with her - but she is totally out of order expecting you to suck it up and basically play happy families, that she'd be unhappy with you if you wanted to take things further and blame you for upsetting the family.

There is absolutely no way I could go on holiday with that woman and if that pisses your mum off, well, I have to say, that suggests her priorities are warped and I'd be generally having less to do with her, too.

Original poster
Fatmomma86 · 10/08/2016 09:53

I feel very strongly about it.

Dh has made it clear he thinks I'd be very selfish to make this choice, essentially robbing him and the children of the holiday.

I just can't imagine having to cope with them for eight days and NOT say anything.

This aunt and uncle aren't wall flowers. They will try to be all over me, my children. The uncle in particular has always been creepy and unpleasant to be around BEFORE any of this.

OP posts:
StillDrSethHazlittMD · 10/08/2016 09:56

I think you have a DH problem as well then. He should be supporting you. How lovely, to have your mum and partner basically saying you should shut up, put up with it, and carry on as if all is fine. What your aunts have done is not only disgusting and immoral but potentially criminal. In your DH's shoes, I wouldn't want my children anywhere near people like that.

Original poster
Fatmomma86 · 10/08/2016 09:57

My mum basically said the same as DH, a 'think of the children' speech.

I know I can't force her to do anything. I wouldn't want to regarding Aunt A's will etc.

BUT I am so upset she is expecting me to just put up and shut up. I appreciate she paid for the holiday, I really do and am grateful.

But ffs mum why come around here in bits and winding everyone up with what they have done and then expect a lovely family holiday?!

OP posts:
Original poster
Fatmomma86 · 10/08/2016 10:00

I think my children don't want an upset and strained mum (who will likely inevitably speak my mind) and a horrible atmosphere.

BUT Dh and Dm have really got me thinking I'm in the wrong.

Am I? Am I behaving out of proportion?

What they have done has sickened me.

OP posts:
Bomb · 10/08/2016 10:04

Do you have any siblings? What about your Dad? Can you enlist some other people to help,your Mum see sense?

Is she still ok with you not inviting the Aunties to your wedding?

StillDrSethHazlittMD · 10/08/2016 10:04

I don't believe you are acting out of proportion and I don't think anyone who has followed this thread would believe that either.

How could you possibly have a nice family holiday in these circumstances? The strained atmosphere will be intolerable. You can't just pretend you don't know what you know, put on a smile and treat them fabulously. Because you know darn well something will be said and all hell will break loose. It's inevitable, because they will, as you said, fawn all round you and you'll lose it.

I'm sorry if this means the holiday is off, but hell, I never went on holiday for the first 13 years off my life. I coped and your kids will too. I can understand your DH perhaps expressing some disappointment and concern that the kids may miss out, but he certainly shouldn't be laying the guilt on you as your mum is. That is unreasonable.

Tell him if he feels so strongly, he can take the kids and go on his own, but that you are absolutely not going.

Bomb · 10/08/2016 10:06

You are not in the wrong, I would feel the same. Sad

Original poster
Fatmomma86 · 10/08/2016 10:14

How could you possibly have a nice family holiday in these circumstances? The strained atmosphere will be intolerable. You can't just pretend you don't know what you know, put on a smile and treat them fabulously. Because you know darn well something will be said and all hell will break loose. It's inevitable, because they will, as you said, fawn all round you and you'll lose it.

That is my train of thought exactly.

OP posts:
Toast3 · 10/08/2016 10:22

I would definitely appoint a solicitor. Understandably, you're all too emotionally involved to think clearly and make decisions....
Your focus should be on the funeral and saying 'goodbye' - let the legal people, who know the law and will think clearly, do the rest. What a horrible situation!
Good luck!

CecilyP · 10/08/2016 10:26

You are not getting it out of proportion. Your mum thinks her sisters are thieves and fraudsters and has come to you upset and devastated about it. But now she is happy to go on a family holiday with one of them. It seems like she has placed the burden on you and washed her hands of it. What does your dad think? I would ask your mum why she told you if she doesn't want you to do anything about it.

originalmavis · 10/08/2016 11:03

I am a mouse but I would be down at aunts door saying 'keep the hell away from our family you thieving cow, and you can expect a visit from the police unless this is sorted within 24 house'. I wouldnt play nice here, this is being awful - it is stealing from the deceased (and they made her last days horrible by the sounds of it).

Stuff the holiday - nobody needs a holiday but this is not going to go away. The damage is done and it's in the open. You can't pretend that it's ok. It's not and I can't see how it can be even if they back off. They have shown themselves in the true colours and I would forgive that.

What is your mum thinking? Has she always been on the back foot with them? I would ask her what her sister would say and who is speaking up for her at the moment.

When our parents died we were all "oh you take the wedding rings for your kids, I rather like that painting - anyone mind if I take it? I remember you getting that for mum - do you want to keep it? Please, somebody take that ugly scary clown statue, it gives me the willies...". But I have heard if families acting very badly after a death.

originalmavis · 10/08/2016 11:04

They have shown themselves in the true colours and I would forgive that. typo - oh no I wouldn't forgive that.

myownprivateidaho · 10/08/2016 11:13

Please get some legal advice!

On my understanding, it is not the case that the will is "invalid" - on the face of it, it fulfils the statutory requirements for validity.(www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Will4and1Vict/7/26/section/9). Gifts to witnesses are, however, void (www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Will4and1Vict/7/26/section/15). However, unless the will is set aside (for undue influence or on the grounds it's a fake), any other bequests are not void.

originalmavis · 10/08/2016 11:24

There is a big question mark as to whether it was actually prepared or written by the deceased. I assume there was no solicitor involved and that the witnesses were also beneficiaries.

StillDrSethHazlittMD · 10/08/2016 11:35

myown had you read the thread, you'd have seen that as well as everyone with any slight experience in this field stating that the will is invalid, a solicitor on the thread confirmed it was invalid.

pluck · 10/08/2016 11:39

Ugh, how horrible!

I wonder if your mother is inhibited by the idea that she would "benefit" from reporting the crime? Would it make her think differently, to resolve on giving her share away (she's prepared to do this anyway) in order to see justice done, and her evil sisters thwarted?

If she hadn't started insisting on you sharing your holiday with them (WTAF), one might even wonder if she told you, in order for you to act when she couldn't. She's actually given you a fair bit of power, to report. Is she scared now that you'll use it, or hoping that you will?

myownprivateidaho · 10/08/2016 11:42

No lawyer is going to declare a will to be invalid without seeing it. It is definitely not a good idea to work on the assumption that a will invalid without having received proper legal advice to this effect. People have suggested that crossings out invalidate the will, or that the fact that the witnesses are relatives invalidate the will. Both might be grounds for ruling that the will should be set aside on some ground but don't invalidate it.

myownprivateidaho · 10/08/2016 11:44

I'm not suggesting that the will should be given effect to, btw. It does look dodgy. Just saying that it is not advisable to work on the assumption that the document can just be ignored.

pluck · 10/08/2016 11:50

.... or perhaps she's just trying to repress these terrifying ideas again! Too bad she told you, isn't it? I mean really too bad. You've always struck me, from Mumsnet, as a forthright sort of person, and what your mother is asking you to do is very unfair to you!

Do you think she would forgive you if you reported your aunt's will as a forgery (by the other aunts)?

No matter what the answer to that is, she is being very unfair on you, demanding you participate in the holiday under these conditions! Your DH needs to suck it up (or else he doesn't appreciate his principled wife).

Finally, the aunts need to face some legal (and social) comeuppance!

WeAreGypsy · 10/08/2016 12:04

I'm sorry you're experiencing all this Fatmomma. Unfortunately alot of this goes on in families Sad and Angry.

I disagree with other posters in that I think perhaps you now need to leave it to your mother to deal with this. You've offerred her help in getting legal advice etc but if she doesn't want to pursue it thats her choice.

It does seem very strange her inviting the offending sister on holiday though ... I really don't know what to suggest. If you don't want to go but your DH does, maybe your DH and children could go and you could have a nice break at home by yourself. I know that sounds weird but it could be a great holiday for you!

Cherylene · 10/08/2016 12:13

Someone (a beneficiary or a beneficiary who has missed out) needs to go to a solicitor and challenge the validity of the will. It can then be investigated to see whether it is valid. Once this has been established, the solicitors can pass the evidence over to the police to see if it is worth prosecuting. It is a long expensive process and there needs to be enough value in the estate to make it all worthwhile.

It is probably a very onerous decision to make.

Is your mother always being stitched up by these two sisters? It seems very cruel of her to dump all her woes onto you, then turn round and play happy families. I wouldn't listen to any more about them. Tell her it is her choice and change the subject.

As for the holiday Confused.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 10/08/2016 12:29

Whilst the whole will may not be invalid, it is likely that the bequests to the witnesses i.e. Aunts will fail as they are witnesses. Given that the bequests to them appear to be the majority of the estate then it would be worth your DM challenging.
The Aunts will also be at risk if they, as supposed executors, distribute assets to those who are not entitled (themselves). They could face personal liability. Maybe that would be an angle to take with your DM. Tell her that the will is a mess and that as the Aunts have witnessed it they can't inherit under the will and that if they give themselves the assets they will potentially be in a lot of trouble. Suggest that a lawyer has a proper look at the will to stop anyone getting into trouble for doing something that is not allowed.

amidawish · 10/08/2016 14:27

speechless.
if your mum didn't want you to do anything WHY oh WHY did she come upset to you about it?
you have to do something. so what if your mum is cross/upset? what does she expect you to do?
stuff the holiday. it will be crap anyway.