To want Nanny to speak all German to kids?

[mika2]

German Nanny (fluent English) starts next month 4 days a week (8-6pm) and I think it's a great opportunity for kids to learn German. They are 3 and 1. Nanny said she was happy to do so during interview. I have very rusty conversational German and also plan to practice my German. I would like her to only speak to kids in German from day 1 and read German books, sing songs in German, watch German cartoons on iPad etc with the aim of them having a good understanding of the language this time next year, rather than just knowing colours etc. Anyway DH thinks it's crazy and kids will be very confused etc. He vetoed putting this in her contract and doesn't see having a second language as a priority whereas I feel really strongly about it... Just to be clear I didn't deliberately hire her because she is German, we liked her and it was an added bonus. Who is BU?

LWJI
Well the Hanen article claims it doesnt cause language delay then follows it with a paragraph demonstrating that it does! LOL
Bilingualism causes language delay. FALSE.
While a bilingual child’s vocabulary in each individual language may be smaller than average, his total vocabulary (from both languages) will be at least the same size as a monolingual child (10, 15). Bilingual children may say their first words slightly later than monolingual children, but still within the normal age range (between 8-15 months) (11). And when bilingual children start to produce short sentences, they develop grammar along the same patterns and timelines as children learning one language (5).
Hmm.

My kids, 7 & 4, are bilingual and have some knowledge of some other languages. Sometimes i think wow, they have literally picked this up overnight, and othertimes i watch them struggle and it is hard.

Be prepared that your kids may not speak to your nanny for 2 years. My youngest DC was like this, she literally didn't say anything until she could speak fluently in sentences. So for two whole years she was literally mute at kindergarten.

After a week back in the UK this summer it is pretty obvious that both DCs English is of a lower level than their cousins of similar ages who live in UK and don't speak a second language. So there are advantages but there are also disadvantages to your plan. But personally i would go for it OP.

My dc 2 spend 6 hours a week with a spanish babysitter she talks/plays and sings to them in spanish they understand her and repeat what she says. When she is not here my dc play and I hear them counting in spanish. I know they may not be billingual but it is important to me to give them exposure to another language. I believe exposing them now when they are young is better than starting learning another language at secondary school for 2 hours a week.
They adore their babysitter and are happy that's all that matters.

Erm... Did you read any of the papers properly, including the one you presented?

Firstly, it's at 23 months. It may show some delay, but, as the authors say "Given the preliminary nature of these data, the conclusion from this study is a hypothesis". Hardly conclusive.
Then there's the other amount of data that show a long term beneficial effect.

Well the Hanen article claims it doesnt cause language delay then follows it with a paragraph demonstrating that it does! LOL

Erm... No, the "delay" was only seen in one language and in one age group of two. No differences were found in the other age group.

If you can find that overwhelming academic research showing that older children and adults raised as bilinguals are at a disadvantage, then please do show.

I know a family who spent 3 years living in another European country. Their young children became fluent in the language of that country. They moved back to the UK when the kids were 9 and 12. Three years later and the 9 year old can't remember a word of the language, although the 12 year old still has some.

I think it is a bit much to ask your nanny to be a language trainer as well.

It also, very likely won't work unless she stays on for 5-10 years.

My kids were bilingual, fluent, until age 6-4, then they wanted to be like all the other kids and refused to speak their second language.

anyway, not saying the same will happen to yours, but at such a young age... What's the point? How are you going to keep this going? I failed because ultimately the kids second language was neither my DH or my first language, so once they were moved to an English speaking country it became artificial and contrived to keep speaking it. The kids rebelled big time.

Would love to know how it goes for yours!

Grumpy (hi! Another Grump ) The trick is to continue with the language when you get back, and keep going back to visit - easier if it's a language taught in school, of course. That's what we've done with our DC, they haven't lost the language at all.

I haven't read the whole thread, but there is some comically bad advice on here.

1. Children need 30% of their time to be in a second language in order to learn the language fluently. Four days a week from 8 to 6 is more than enough time, if all that is in German.

1. Why are people acting like it would be a hardship for the nanny to speak her native language?

1. Kids don't get confused being brought up bilingually. Some posters have suggested easing into the German -- I honestly don't know whether this is a good idea. I can see why it could be unsettling for the kids not to understand the nanny for the first week or so, but it will make it harder to do exclusively German if they are used to speaking to her in English. I think kids this small do most of their communicating non-verbally anyway. . .

1. I haven't read the literature, but it was my understanding that it is cognitively beneficial grow up bilingually even if the second language is not used later. It improves executive function -- can't get much better than that. Maybe look into that if you want to convince DH?

I was an au pair who was told to speak only English to three very small French children. I found it very frustrating because they would get so upset that they couldn't understand me. I ended up talking to them in French half the time as I felt so sorry for them.

I think it's great! Your children might 'lose it' if they stop using it but equally they could make German friends locally (in my area there's a German club for German speaking children for example). It won't harm them but you might need to explain to the older one.

I had French 'lessons' from pre-school and it was totally pointless so I'm a big fan of immersive methods.

My great aunt is German by birth. She came over here on Kinderstransporten aged about 12yo not knowing any language other than her own. When she wanted to go back to Germany she had to relearn German. She reckoned she was a bit quicker than the others who were in her class, but not noticeably.

My observation of various bilingual children is that they are generally later, much later, with the first words. Once they start speaking then they learn both languages quite quickly. However one family I know they had to stop the attempts at bilingualism at 2.6yo as their dc spoke no words. Once they stopped speaking the second language their child began speaking within the month. Maybe a fluke? However the same happened with their second child too (although at a younger age).

Just to add...in my experience (teaching in very multiethnic areas) bilingual children do tend to take a little longer than monolingual children to get to the same level, but it's a short term thing and long term gain is huge.

won't it be frightening for young children to be left with a stranger who is speaking a language they don't understand?

It just seems like a bit much to introduce a new person AND a language and expect them to cope with that. It would be too much for me and I'm 42!

No - as explained earlier. Young children already don't understand most of English (or whatever their first language is). It's not frightening for them to be left with a person speaking another language any more than it's frightening to be left with a new person anyway.

It would be too much for you because you're 42. You've been speaking and understanding other people for 40 years and you're (understandably and practically) very reliant on that for communication with other people. On the other hand, young children don't expect to understand everything of what they hear nor be understood by everyone because they have not yet been exposed to every possible word and phrase in English and because their own speech tends to be unclear until 3 or so. They are not reliant on spoken communication and most of their communication is still in gestures and sounds. If you think about the way people tend to talk to under-3s or try to observe next time you notice someone with a toddler (or indeed if you have your own) you're often showing them things or pointing or miming or physically bringing them to whatever you're trying to say. Toddlers will often grab your hand and try to lead you to something instead of saying "Come and look at what I found". You speak as well, out of habit and also because this is how they learn, but it's not the main way you actually communicate with children until they are older.

In this case the nanny also understands English so could respond to the 3yo anyway, and if needed she could translate or switch to English if something was important/the children were upset. I teach English to children and I only tend to switch to their language if they are upset or occasionally to aid understanding (and then, it's single words).

My kids all had/ have french nannies and they speak good french. It's a great idea.

That's really interesting as you are the first person on the thread who has direct experience of this in England.
How long did the nanny stay do you know, and did your friend do much to reinforce?

Sorry for the delay in replying, been out shopping. I think she had two nannies for a total of roughly 3 years. They took holidays in the nanny's country and eventually bought a holiday home there. The children go to a summer school, sort of activities and things in the school holidays and play with local kids. She is there most school holidays and certainly for six weeks in the summer. She has thought of living there for a year to cement it but she hasn't actually done it. Her kids are very bright and it certainly hasn't held them back with their English and I am told they would be able to fit in to school if they did move abroad so I assuming they are fluent in that language.

The eldest is due to start senior school so will be starting another language in September, will be interesting to see how that goes.

PhD l/lecturer in second language acquisition here!

Do it! Great way to learn. They'd need to keep it up through childhood to msintain but after a year or so of "immersion" they'd have a good foundation.

Acquiring a language is never in isolation, so if they're stressed/don't get on with nanny for other reasons they could associate German with that. But if she's relaxed, plays lots, no pressure, kids can answer back in whichever language they want, should be fine!

How long did the nanny stay do you know, and did your friend do much to reinforce?

Sorry for the delay in replying, been out shopping. I think she had two nannies for a total of roughly 3 years. They took holidays in the nanny's country and eventually bought a holiday home there. The children go to a summer school, sort of activities and things in the school holidays and play with local kids. She is there most school holidays and certainly for six weeks in the summer. She has thought of living there for a year to cement it but she hasn't actually done it. Her kids are very bright and it certainly hasn't held them back with their English and I am told they would be able to fit in to school if they did move abroad so I assuming they are fluent in that language

She's put in massive effort, hasn't she? The OP will have to follow it up too certainly several years of German nannies if she wants any long term benefit and find a way to keep it all ticking over through primary school (or move to SE24).

I agree that total immersion is the way to go. Round here when children start school they are only spoken to in Welsh and those from English speaking homes are fluent very quickly. There is so much evidence for the advantages of bilingualism.

Thanks for all the advice - and sorry about the slow reply! Yes we do live near a bilingual German school (totally outing myself probably!) so 3 year old could go there next year. I don't think it's relevant though unless DH has a massive change of heart. He is very opposed to sending kids there - thinks it's experimental so like "gambling with our children's education" and that they will be at a disadvantage in the normal school system (summer born) and putting them in a bilingual school when neither of us are German would mean they would really struggle and be bottom of the class etc etc. I find this attitude quite depressing tbh as I think it's an amazing opportunity for them as my primary education was in another (not in any way commercially useful) language and it's definitely made it easier for me to learn languages.

The problem is not the nanny as she has lived here for 6+ years and definitely doesn't need to practice her English (although as ppl have pointed out she would find it a lot easier to build a relationship with 3 year old so she may give up quickly) the problem is DH who just recently said "the kids can decide what language they want to learn when they were older" and "we need to focus on teaching them English" talk about missing the point! He is quite big on studies so thanks to the poster who sent on those links highlighting the benefits. Any other ammunition appreciated!
And btw I was only putting speaking German in the contract to highlight that it was important to us under the heading "the nanny's duties will include.." alongside tidying children's bedrooms etc. Not to be able to use it as a sackable offence!

Anyway although it is unlikely (sadly) that they will go to this bilingual school I still think it is worth pursuing and would be happy to invest in this long term and continue with German nannies etc. Started watching Peppa Wutz and just bought some German picture books. I've also signed up for some Skype lessons so I can attempt to speak German to nanny but unless I can get DH onboard with OPOL I'm not sure it's going to work..

How frustrating for you Mika, with the school nearby and all! I suspect DH is fearful of being left out. Would he consider a German class? Night off putting the kids to bed!
Would he be more agreeable if you also say youll review the situation at seven, move them if theyre struggling?

You sound like a crazy pushy mother tbh OP. Your kids can be bilingual without it being forced on them 24/7 in their own home

Thanks for your invaluable insight psycho but surely at age 1&3 they couldn't possibly learn another language without it being "forced" on them in their own home?! Where else are they going to learn it?? And I'm not expecting them to be bi-lingual - I would just like them to have a second language they can communicate in from an early age which is the norm where I come from. Maybe I am being pushy but I just want my kids to at least have the same opportunities I did.

Hardly 24/7, if the nanny's contract is only for 40 hours a week.