Aibu for moving my son into a smaller bedroom

[Summerholsdoingmyheadin]

We have three children and four bedrooms. 3 bedrooms are decent sized doubles. Teenage son has the smallest double but he has an ensuite bathroom. Everyone happy with this. The youngest (one year old) is currently in with us.
Middle son has the biggest bedroom with floor to ceiling built in wardrobes and cupboards. This room is about 14ft by 13ft. He only has a single bed (11 year old). His room is constantly a tip. He takes his ironed clothes and just tosses them into a crumpled heap in the cupboard. He never hovers the room but doesn't want me to do it either. He constantly has reams of paper strewn over the floor and dozens of books, DVDs and food wrappers all over the place. Dirty clothes just pile up on the floor and his wet towels live on the carpet. He says it his impossible to keep the room in any state of tidiness. I have threatened to move him into the smallest room on many occasions so he has less space to keep tidy. I am at the end of my tether with his level of mess. Yes it is his room, but we have 2 asthma sufferers in the house and his dust levels are atrocious. The one year old has food allergies and we are sick of the food and wrappers that we find lying around middle sons bedroom as the baby could have an allergic reaction if he toddles in and picks things up.
I am now at the point of considering moving ds2 into the smallest room as I will clean and tidy it and it is a smaller space so will be easier for me to do.
Aibu to do this? Ds2 thinks this is unfair, mean and tantamount to child abuse

Thanks special. I don't feel like I have any choice but to grin and bear it, much the same as when your ds dropped his banana skin we just have to get on with it. I think parenting throws different challenges at us all. My previous background was working in a field with children who had asd and sld and I have to say that those parents have life much tougher than me and fill me with admiration.

I had a chat with DH last night about swapping the bedrooms around and he wasn't keen but I reminded him that he has threatened to do this on numerous occasions and we cannot give empty threats as we will be making things harder for ourselves. We agreed that DS will get one chance to get the room tidy and we will help him if he wants help and he will be warned that if it gets beyond acceptable again we will be moving him without hesitation. I will take control of moving him because DH will put it off whereas I won't. DH is concerned that the smallest room is too small for ds2 but i think 9ftx9ft is plenty sufficient for one untidy child.

Given his entitlement, maybe having the smaller room will be a good punishment, like a blow to the ego? You're absolutely right about never giving out empty threats - Esecially since your DS is quick enough to know if you're bullshitting him!

The only advice I can give is don't feel like a 'bad mummy' if you and DH need to joke about it/him. Laughing makes everything easier, and it makes me a better mum because if I vent whilst DH cracks wise, I feel more relaxed to tackle The Next Thing.

I'm not sure that made sense

Give notice on Thurs that you will be going into his room on Mon and anything on the floor will be binned with the exception of household items- towels, dishes, clothes. These will be off the floor for you to Hoover.

Reinforce this message Fri, sat, Sun then on Mon follow through.
All household items on his bed, wet towels etc and anything on the floor binned.
Be prepared to help him change his bed when it is empty.

For showers I would smell him when he comes out and if not happy then I would return him for another go. I would also adevise said child that I will happily email the school to tell them exactly why he is late.
Yes he will tantrum but tough-be firm.

You could always leave a trail of sweets to outside and BAM! get him with the hose.

Okay, I hate to say it, but I was this sort of child. .

Anything that I saw as an invasion of my privacy, or demands that I clean up immediately, just made me more stubborn and resentful - the room got cleaned in the short-term, but I saw it as something forced on me rather than my responsibility.

What helped with me was having a bit of choice in things - almost like you'd do with a toddler, really. 'Do you want to tidy up now, or when we get back from swimming?' and so on. Also, help to get organised. I'd want to clean up my own personal papers and other private things, but at 11, faced with a floor full of mess, the task would seem too daunting to begin. Maybe tidying every day for a set amount of time (15 minutes before bed?) would seem more manageable. This is what I did when I was severely depressed as an adult - I'd literally clean for 30 minutes, and then stop, even if the room I was trying to clean wasn't finished. A few weeks later, I had a tidy house, and it never felt overwhelming.

I think if punishing him for being untidy hasn't worked before, and he's in any way spectrum-ish (like me!) then it's not going to have the desired effect. Instead, think of ways you could get his co-operation to develop better habits, so it seems like you're working together on keeping the room tidy, rather than 'you against him' which is how I perceived this sort of thing as a child. If you do move him to a smaller room, frame it as being easier to keep clean/organised, rather than as a punishment. I know I'd have been thinking 'what will they do if I don't keep the small room tidy, put me in the garden?' and it would have thrown up issues of spite and resistance. Think about the long-term outcome you want - which I know is hard, since his behaviour must be so annoying for you!

However, I would probably take him to an ed psych first just to double check on ASD and other potential diagnoses

Because he won't tidy his room? Really?

Defo go for it, plus have a good clear out of all his stuff, if he doesn't treat it well then it gets taken away. If he breaks the food rules then he gets a consequence, something else taken away.
Take him to shop to buy paint and new duvet cover and say if he keeps new room nice you'll treat him to something big - day out on his own with a friend or whatever he fancies.
Stand your ground no matter what age he should contribute to family needs.

I have a son of a similar age. Do a big tidy and clear out for him, draw a line under it and from then on keep it simple. Blanket box type chest for all toys and kid crap. Wash basket for clothes and bin for rubbish. Each night when he is getting ready for bed (every day is the secret - don't let it build up) sit and chat in his room about how his day has been. Don't make it confrontational, a moment of bonding time together. Whilst chatting put all items left out either into the bin/wash basket or toy box. I find when I start my son automatically joins in. Don't make it a big argument, just chat. I find that if do these two things at the same time I don't feel like i am wasting my time so much! I also get his uniform or clothes out for the next day and lay them out nearly. He goes to sleep with a tidy room and we are all sorted for the next day. I believe kids need to be taught how to tidy, they are not just born with the skill. I work with troublesome teens at work (not home!) and this sort of non confrontational but firm approach, modelling good practise etc is the best way to solve an issue which is causing you all stress. Good luck OP X

And from someone who works in the SEN and EP profession the concept of a kid being referred to the EP for a messy bedroom is not going to meet the criteria!

Uhm I don't think that was suggested because his room is untidy. OP has posted many other concerns, so quit hoisting your judgey pants

Rrross I also suggested taking him to see a psychologist privately, and no, not for the messy bedroom. For the extreme lengths he goes to to avoid tidying, personal hygiene and responsibility. To the extent that OP is taking photographs as evidence that she's not being unduly harsh for no reason.

Plus some other things that sounded spectrum-y (high IQ; thinking he's right and everyone else is wrong; possible sensory sensitivities that comfort eating and poor personal hygiene can be symptomatic of.)

I'm not trying to diagnose someone else child in any way, but the OP sounds at the end of her tether and, if they can afford it, a child psychologist will be able to help. Even if it's only ruling out any SN or emotional issues so they know for sure that this child is NT and it's fine to come down on him like a tonne of bricks.

The refusing public transport might be masked as "not for people like me" but actually be frightening for your son. In NT teens ("normal") a lot of bravado and bloshyness covers for anxiety.
2 of my 3 DC do feel anxious using public transport. Taking your DC out using public transport is a good starting point.
Things that cause my DC anxiety include:
Not knowing how to buy a ticket,
Not knowing how to use machines,
What happens if I miss a bus/train?
Will I be stranded?
What if I lose my ticket?
What if someone doesn't get on the train?
Sitting next to strangers,
Going past the stop,

Mine are fine with ticket barriers at the end of train lines. Early practice helps there.
But even I feel anxious about using buses in a strange place as I'm not sure of the convention on buying bus tickets.