Your self-effacement is not interesting.

[GarlicMistake]

I'm housebound today so have been reading a lot of threads. This is a ThreadAboutThemAll. I'm up to here with "little old me" type comments. If people think you're beautiful, own it. If you're too self-conscious to wear a bikini, do something about your lack of self-love. If someone's taking the piss, come on here for hints on what to say - and then say it.

Putting yourself down is, like shyness, quite selfish. You're prioritising your feelings about yourself over everybody else. I'm all for answering pleas for attention by giving attention, but it gets a bit wearing.

I'm not saying I've never been shy or down on myself. I often still am: I empathise. But, please, for crying out loud, make an effort to act positive about yourself! Or AIBU?

Who the hell do you think you are? I doubt very much you have been depressed if you come out with shit like this
Erm this is out of order. What garlic said about affirmations was exactly what a therapist suggested to me when I was being treated for depression.

garlic I haven't read the threads, sometimes people can be very wearing asking for advice then ignoring it so maybe you aren't BU

YABU for starting a thread. Here's your arse on a plate

I really hate the (seemingly quite recent) thing of associating shyness with being selfish or annoying. Like shy people need another bloody stick to beat themselves with. What happened to kindness?

Shyness is often nothing to do with "what will people think of me" or "I hope someone else does all the work here". It is a genuine difficulty with navigating social situations, and the idea that people think you selfish is only going to make the problem worse, and socialising seem more difficult and other people more distant.

I feel like adults don't often display the social skills or kindness we claim to expect of children.

Balletblue totally agree with your post! We cant all want or feel the need to be centre of attention, or indeed want to be the bubby one in a group. Fake it till you make it can work, but not for eveyone. It took me years to be able to voice my feelings & opinions, wasted alot of years, spending too much time worrying about other peoples feelings. Then I realized that I had a right to speak up about things that happen, not to let others walk over me.
Being shy isnt a life style choice! Example Kate Bush, talented, wonderful songwriter, very shy IRL. Hasnt stopped her doing things her way!

All that purpledaisies has already said.

Thank you wombattoo and PurpleDaisies , and thank you too to Garlic for the apology.

Erm this is out of order. What garlic said about affirmations was exactly what a therapist suggested to me when I was being treated for depression

Felascloak, my comment had nothing to do with the affirmations. They may or may not work- I have never persevered long enough and I am not sure that one size fits all. The comment you thought was out of order was in fact in response to the OP's statement about inflicting inner turmoil on others. I can't understand how someone with depression (which is characterised by worry about that very thing) can say something like that. You might think that's out of order, but it's something I feel strongly about. I would hate for a friend who was depressed to worry that they weren't enough fun or confident enough.

Depression is a selfish illness. That's a fact not a bit of fiction and stating it doesn't mean all people who are or who have been depressed are all selfish. The illness is selfish not the person.

I've had depression but it wasn't clinical and was treated successfully. Lots of positive affirmations and self esteem boosting really helped me. It wouldn't of helped someone with clinical depression.

My dad has clinical depression and it has made him very selfish. He's like an addict and will put his depression over his family. Calling your teenage kids up and telling them you're about to commit suicide on a regular basis is bloody selfish and living with someone like that is hard. It is all about them and it's very draining.

It is the illness though and not the person. The op is having a very hard time of it on this thread with people stating things defensiveness and untrue.

OP I think you may be conflating at least three different phenomena here.

There is a difference between "classic" British little-old-me and hand-wringing proclamations of self-hatred.

Equally, there are hand-wringing proclamations of self-hatred that are borne out of self-obsession and a desire for a quick, cheap ego boost. They are, however distinct in themselves from the hand-wringing proclamations of self-hatred that stem from genuinely poor self esteem, depression and suffering.

I lived with a girl for years that I've referenced elsewhere on here that made my life and the lives of our other housemate, her family and countless friends an absolute misery - largely thanks to various fabricated mental illnesses and played-up insecurities that aimed at a "Girl Interrupted" style trendy fragility, which was leveraged to attract constant steroid injections to her ego and avoid culpability for what were often incredibly selfish and cruel behaviours. Anybody that confronted her or even failed to reassure her sufficiently that she wasn't fat and hideous would be lambasted and accused of triggering her.

So yes, such people do exist, but they are (arguably) in a minority - and the best approach in dealing with them, i.e a short sharp shock and being told to buck their ideas up, is almost never the best approach when dealing with someone who is genuinely in distress and anxious and low.

The majority of people that make a throwaway self-effacing remark aren't expecting anything other than an equally throwaway "oh nonsense", or words to that effect. Regardless of its philosophical worthiness, an exchange like this js simply a feature of everyday social intercourse. In making a self-effacing remark to you, under at least reasonably normal circumstances, 19 people in 20 aren't really demanding anything from you at all.

I do sometimes post here for support. When I do, I'm careful to respect people's thoughts and not to play "yes but" or "ain't it awful".

Not everyone agrees with a particular type of therapy and labels from the 50s and a book written in 1964. Of course you can dismiss people's feelings by saying they are playing "games". However I think it's unhelpful, outdated and inflexible, and belittles people's genuine feelings and concerns. And particularly so when out of context and not in an accepting, therapeutic situation.

If someone says "yes but" to the suggestions people give, it's because the suggestions aren't right for them, they've considered them before etc. And if someone feels many things are "awful" they are stating their own experience. It doesn't necessarily mean they need to "think positive" or correct their own "faulty thought patterns" which are actually not at fault, negative as they may be... (and that's where CBT can be limited IMO).

If you want to go with Transactional Analysis I'd ask whether you intend to come across as the "critical parent" on this thread OP and also (consciously or not) imply that "I'm OK, you're not OK".

this You copied the whole paragraph then said you doubted garlic had been depressed which seemed a bit harsh to me, apologies I wasn't clear what you were referring to.

I don't want to make you feel bad, SDTG. Or anybody, though I accept I have. I'm sorry.

Thanks for posting this Garlic. It wasn't there when I started writing my last post!

Fair comment, Fela. I'm having roast Arse of Garlic for dinner.

I'm not sure, Buffy Thank you for asking. I expected a spirited response, and did want to sift through some ill-formed ideas - but clearly underestimated how ill-formed they are. I really didn't mean to trample on so many people's feelings. Think I'd best mull this one over by myself before I make any more cock-ups.

I'll be reading all the posts, though.

I've just revisited this, which I think is superficial like all such articles, but probably says things better than I'm currently able: www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/201608/what-s-the-most-powerful-way-raise-your-self-esteem

People with crippling shyness, social anxiety or low self-esteem are absolutely NOT being selfish and wanting everything to be about them; nor are they attention-seeking. Quite the reverse, actually. The last thing they want is for the attention to be on them. They aren't self-absorbed at all, but are totally overwhelmed by what other people think of them, and feeling that they will never be good enough to live up to other people's expectations of them, no matter how hard they try. They don't spend all their time thinking about themselves, but spend the whole time worrying about what other people are thinking and feeling.

Well put, dodobookends!

Oh dear garlic, you do seem to have a stirred up a shit storm! I can't help thinking that if you're "up to here" with "little old me" comments then perhaps you should just stop reading them?! Thank god for diversity (including your own) because without it this world would be a terribly boring place. As someone mentioned earlier would you really want to live in a world where everyone was a Kim Kardashian? I can't think of anything more repulsive myself.

this You copied the whole paragraph then said you doubted garlic had been depressed which seemed a bit harsh to me, apologies I wasn't clear what you were referring to

That's OK, the thread hit quite a raw nerve. There was probably no need to copy the bit about the affirmations (apart from maybe to say 'it's not that easy'). But the thing that really got to me was the inflicting inner turmoil thing. When you have low self-esteem, it's like having a loop of negative voices in your head saying that you're fat, stupid and boring. When someone indicates that other people might actually be thinking that some of that is true, it can be quite hard to hear. I wish I could be outgoing and fun and magnetic or whatever but no affirmations are going to change basic aspects of my personality. I can (and do) work on smaller things, but things like shyness and low self-esteem are always there in the background.

I'm shy and an introvert. I give two fucks if you think I'm being selfish. HTH.

People with crippling shyness, social anxiety or low self-esteem are absolutely NOT being selfish and wanting everything to be about them; nor are they attention-seeking. Quite the reverse, actually. The last thing they want is for the attention to be on them. They aren't self-absorbed at all, but are totally overwhelmed by what other people think of them, and feeling that they will never be good enough to live up to other people's expectations of them, no matter how hard they try. They don't spend all their time thinking about themselves, but spend the whole time worrying about what other people are thinking and feeling

Thank you, dodo, that is it EXACTLY.

Hahahahahahafuckingha
I'm glad you have the answer.
I haven't read all the replies, but got as far as you saying someone gave you a kick up the backside.
Well guess what, sometimes people don't have anyone to talk to IRL, so they come on here for support.
Get over yourself, with your high and mighty attitude!

'I'm sorry you suffer debilitating shyness, Kittens. Glad it doesn't stop you speaking your mind on a forum'. It often does, actually. I often type up a post, delete it, retype it and so on several times before I hit post. I'm usually very nervous about saying anything at all, even on here.

What steps have I been taking to try and conquer my crippling shyness, anxiety and insecurity? Counselling. It's not really helping though. Hopefully it will eventually. In the meantime I'm thankful for forums like MN where I can in some small way interact with other people.

"I do have PTSD, depression and assorted other shit. I have to 'work on myself' every day."

I am so sorry to hear you suffer from PTSD, depression and 'assorted other shit', GarlicMistake, but am delighted to hear that you do not suffer from these things at such a level of severity to prevent you from 'working on yourself' every day.

Perhaps a little empathy and consideration for those who do suffer to such a severity that they cannot 'work on themselves' every day, wouldn't go a miss.

*amiss, not 'a miss'

I cannot, in any way, see how shyness is selfish. Rather than passing on her advice, garlic, I think you should put that woman in the Prats I Have Met and Their Mental Health Advice folder. I've got a page free, just after the woman who told me my facial blindness was due to negative affirmations (rather than, y'know, a feature of my diagnosed neurological condition), and the born-again Christian vicar who told teenage me that crying was "giving in to the devil", as opposed to a psychologically normal reaction to having an alcoholic parent and having just heard a load of voicemail messages that made it very clear how much alcohol said parent had had, and what I was going home to that night.

Arrogant wankers, the lot of them. I'm just glad I don't have to live in a head that issues advice like that.

Twatty