Your self-effacement is not interesting.

[GarlicMistake]

I'm housebound today so have been reading a lot of threads. This is a ThreadAboutThemAll. I'm up to here with "little old me" type comments. If people think you're beautiful, own it. If you're too self-conscious to wear a bikini, do something about your lack of self-love. If someone's taking the piss, come on here for hints on what to say - and then say it.

Putting yourself down is, like shyness, quite selfish. You're prioritising your feelings about yourself over everybody else. I'm all for answering pleas for attention by giving attention, but it gets a bit wearing.

I'm not saying I've never been shy or down on myself. I often still am: I empathise. But, please, for crying out loud, make an effort to act positive about yourself! Or AIBU?

[thisisafakename]

Thanks OP, at least it sounds as if you have realised that it was an ill-judged post. However, it's not about you having to forgive yourself for not realising that others would 'misinterpret' your title (that smacks of not taking responsibility). I don't think anyone has misinterpreted- you made a series of twattish and insulting comments that struck a chord with anyone who is depressed/shy/socially anxious. That attitude is very unhelpful and can also be harmful. You're also not alone in having it- i have heard many people saying the same and I flinch every time because they would never dream of telling someone with a physical ailment to just get over it.

But as long as you can understand why and how your post was wrong, I (and I am sure others on this thread) can understand that it was just a case of expressing yourself badly and that no harm was meant. I have no hard feelings if that is the case. Just remember though that you absolutely cannot judge everyone through your own perspective and expect them to react the same as you.

[MeAndMy3LovelyBoys]

OP, people can feel what they like.

Like today for example- Anxiety has crept up on me and I don't want to leave the house. This in turn makes me feel like shit because I'm not taking my DSs out somewhere like everyone seems to be doing with their kids.

[SatsukiKusakabe]

Thanks for coming back garlic. It takes balls to say you've misjudged something, and to try and correct it. Sorry it's affected you irl. I think the sentiments expressed in your last post no one would disagree with, but it's often unfortunately more complicated than that.

memylovelyboys I had this last week felt so guilty for not taking them out anywhere, I just calmly decided to be kind to myself and focus on doing one good thing with them at home each day with them, a decent dinner, and make plans for when I felt better. It won't harm them and might do them some good, they are run ragged all through the school year.

[corythatwas]

Frankly, OP, I agree with thisisafake about your last post. You are basically saying that any criticism of your posts or your attitude is due to the fact that other people have problems which makes them interpret your posts in a skewed way.

As my post made clear, I do not suffer from social anxiety and never have- I still saw a lot to criticise about your posts. You come across as someone who has found a miracle cure and is blaming everybody else for not having been instantly cured by it. Excellent, excellent, excellent to have the attitude that x, y and z works for you and that it is your responsibility to keep working at something that helps you. I feel the same about my own fear of heights: there are things that help and it is clearly my job work with those things. But it is not a reason to blame somebody else if the same measures don't work for them.

[GarlicMistake]

I might regret this ... Me, I'm sorry you're feeling nervous today. Can I ask you something I nicked from the article I posted? I've copied it down because it resonates for me: don't know whether it means the same for you.

"In this situation, what do I need to do - or what decision do I need to make - that would result in the most self-approval?"

That could be getting yourself & DC sorted and out down the park. Or it could be deciding it's good self-care to plan a cosy day in with them, allowing yourself to heal. Or something else. The author's point was that our self-judgement is based on our experience of ourselves. So it's sometimes best to do whatever makes us approve of ourselves :)

This won't feel right to everyone, of course. But that little question's already made me finish the washing up, come back to this thread & face the music, and get enough sleep. What's your feeling?

[Pauperback]

I actually agree with what I understand to be the main point of the OP's OP - which doesn't appear to have anything to do with extremes of social anxiety, but to be pointing out that female self-effacement and self-denigration is a weird cultural double-bind. Women are still socialised to self-denigrate or risk being considered arrogant - female group conversations are often a bizarre litany of compliments and a ritual refusal to accept said compliments, and you simply do not get men saying 'Ooh, have you lost weight? You look great!' 'Me? God no, I look like a heifer!' 'You do not!' etc etc.

But frankly, it's both tiresome to be around people who consistently perform this kind of social poor self-esteem - I do not have the time to build up someone constantly - and it doesn't do women any favours professionally if their default mode is 'Oh, this old thing?'/ 'Silly little me'.

It's surely a criticism of a cultural/social issue, rather than a sweeping generalisation about shyness or anxiety?

[GarlicMistake]

Right now, I want to hug you and give you a big, sloppy kiss Pauperback!
I'm going to add another thing to your perfect evaluation.
Women are socialised to be selfless. Hence 'selfish' being received as a dire insult. Neither extreme is desirable in reality.
Same with self-absorbed or self-involved. To have no care for yourself, or to completely lack self-awareness, is as maladaptive as being totally wrapped up in yourself.
But women take 'selfish' and 'self-centred' as the bigger insults.
Because we're socialised to be ... self-effacing.

What I did wrong was fail to realise how violently my OP would impact on people who are going through pathological anxieties. So a lot of people got hurt & angry.

I'd love to get back to the social/cultural issue, and some things to do about it :) Pretty sure that discussion will help some of the people with pathological issues, too - at least, I'd hope so.

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

I still reckon everyone should wear the damn bikini, have the damn talk, and accept the damn compliment

Look OP - you don't have the answers. You know what works for you. But please don't come on here and start telling people what they should do - it's fucking patronising. And most of us have had this all our lives so we have kinda tried most things.

And frankly you have upset enough people already so perhaps stop digging.

If you want to have a discussion about the socialisation of women, you can discuss it on the feminist board - but whether or not you intended it, you have been incredibly hurtful to a lot of people.

[KeepitDown]

On the cultural side of it, I read about a social experiment once where it was interesting to see that as well as the pressure women heap on each other to be self-denigrating, men can get quite shocked and aggressive when not receiving this expected response from women too.

I'll see if I can find the link, but basically a woman decided (as a social experiment) to happily accept/agree with any compliments given to her by men, instead of brushing them off. The men involved were startlingly annoyed, and often insulting in response.

It was so interesting to see how this expectation is fully ingrained and policed by men as well.

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

I'd love to get back to the social/cultural issue, and some things to do about it smile Pretty sure that discussion will help some of the people with pathological issues, too - at least, I'd hope so.

Seriously???

[Netflixandchill]

Wow! You go girl!

Yawn

[KeepitDown]

www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/this-is-what-happens-when-women-actually-accept-a-compliment?utm_term=.ssRGZy6ll#.kvmpoXMBB

[J0kersSmile]

Some people (men and women but imo more women although I hate gender stereotypes) really like being a drama lama.

Most work places have one, examples we're all going out and talking about it on a group message. One person starts saying they feel fat, they have nothing to wear and they won't come now. Cue everyone trying to persuade that person that they're amazing and beautiful and millions of messages about pick up the phone and pep talks. OK that's fine every now and again but coupled with loads of other attention seeking behaviour it's annoying. People put themselves out to help out a friend/colleague and that person is only doing it for attention. It is selfish of them. Why do they think everyone needs to fawn over them to come out? Other people have their own stuff going on without someone always making it about them.

It's the same thing when someone's invited out and they say no not because they don't want to come but because they want to be begged to come and to be told it won't be the same without them and all that drama.

Is that more what you mean garlic

[MC1R]

I have autism.

Autism is a developmental abnormality of the brain which causes considerable difficulty in sorting incoming sensory information, particularly when attempting to interpret facial expressions, body language and vocal tone and context. I also have very slow verbal processing, meaning your words spoken to me take a while to crystalise in my brain. (Remember polaroid photos, how they slowly developed and came into focus over a couple of minutes? Like that. It's like that exactly.)

It also causes - in most cases - horrendous sensory overload, meaning sounds, smells, light and all other incoming information is overwhelming to the point of pain. We also do not sleep well, so we are constantly exhausted. We have poor balance and motor coordination, meaning we must focus intensely on walking and moving, and our muscles are usually hypotonic, meaning we have to drag ourselves laboriously through our day to day lives. It's hard, hard, hard. Physically and mentally wearing beyond words.

It has caused me three nervous breakdowns in my life, each time landing me in a psychiatric hospital for months at a time. I wasn't diagnosed until I was in my late thirties, when my life suddenly started to make some sense.

I am cautious in social situations - probably I come across as shy. I am cautious because my brain cannot really understand all the minutiae of the language you are using... what your posture means...what those facial expressions you are using indicate...because my brain cannot pick up on them. Also, at the same time, I am trying to filter all this Social Stuff in the midst of a howling tornado of noise, light, sound, touch - all utterly overwhelming to me. Because I so often get all this wrong, I am very wary of people generally, and usually follow safe social scripts which I know will not cause offence. Deeper relationships are not possible for me. I do not know how to initiate them.

There is no medication or therapy for autism. It is a permanent condition. The suicide rates for those with ASC are staggeringly high - I wonder why...

Autism affects roughly 1 in 65 of us. You will not know we are autistic, unless we tell you....it's not like we wear a badge which lets you know. (Yet...)

Just something for you to think about, OP.

[wigglesrock]

You just keep on motoring through don't you OP - fuck all concern for your initial car crash of an OP & subsequent posts

You'd love to get back to the social/ cultural issue? When where you ever at the social/cultural issue? You started a TAAT, made several sweeping and jaw droppingly patronising statements but its ok because other posters may have misunderstood you

[GarlicMistake]

Wow, Keep, that Buzzfeed/Tumblr really shows it up

I'm not sure I've ever replied "Yeah, I know" (the very thought makes me laugh, which must prove something) but I gave up the self-deprecation years ago. A simple "thanks" is enough ... but, actually, men do big themselves up in reply, don't they? If a man gets a compliment on his presentation/rugby try/shirt, he generally comes back with a few details about how he did it, where he bought it, and suchlike. They NEVER say oh, no, it was awful, little old me, I look a mess.

So compliments to men are consolidated, and rewarded with increased esteem. While women reward ourselves with put-downs :(

This must feed into generalised self-loathing among women, mustn't it?

[GarlicMistake]

Yup, J0kers, that is extremely exasperating. When it's as exaggerated as you describe, it sounds like it might be coming from a mental health problem. But what to do? How many affirmations does it take before they settle??

[Squiff85]

Totally agree OP!

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

If you genuinely want a discussion about the human condition, you probably won't get many takers on here...

[GarlicMistake]

MC1R, this is not and has never been about autism :) You have a whole other set of challenges to manage as suits you best.

If you're at all 'typical', this ritual of exchanging self-insults would be anathema to you.

I get that each autistic person finds their own level. If, you've adopted the game of "No, I look terrible!" -> "No, you're gorgeous!" as one of your coping strategies - it's a tough one to judge right, so it might be better to steer clear.

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

Even the thread title is offensive as fuck

It's going to put people on the defensive and you pretending you didn't realise that is disingenuous at best

[GarlicMistake]

Livia - "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.

"We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone.

"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."

• Marianne Williamson. Apart from the God bit, I agree with every word.
  

I had this pinned to my bedroom wall for five years, where I'd see it as soon as I woke up.

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

Umm.... Okay then....

Is that supposed to inspire us anxious people to being awesome?

You crack on with making people feel even worse about themselves...

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

And to be fair that quote comes across as the usual inspirational horseshit that you see on FB every day - is it supposed to inspire other posters?