To turn your attention to this article **Trigger warning: Child abuse. Title edited by MNHQ**

[NedStarksHead]

After a long and stressful debate/argument on FB, I'd like to turn your attention to these articles....

If you're one of the people who say "murder them all, they're all scum, they should be shot" then just read these and re-think.

Use different wording. A child molester is so different to a pedophile.

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/21/imaapedophilebuttnotaa_monster/

http://www.virped.org

Thank fuck for that obvious some sense. where have you been?

Raspberry where I worked was a therapeutic unit for boys under 18. They had been either sent there by the courts or by social services. I attended group therapy sessions and worked closely with their social workers and read their files. So yes it could all be corroborated. They were a very vulnerable group of lads and developed a good relationship with them all except one who openly admitted that he hadn't been abused and he got turned on by children.

YY Werks. There are people on this thread who have implied that known paedophiles should be able to live completely freely in society with their "urges" being fully empathised with as a sexual orientation and touchy feely and supportive talking therapy provided. So long as they don't act on them.

It is very much in the line of apologetics for wannabe serial killers, rather than being gay. There is always going to be a power dynamic involved, and often elements of sadism and narcissism.

As you noted, and I repeated and people haven't bothered to acknowledge, he indulged those feelings regularly with other likeminded men on internet forums and expressed that he might has well not have bothered not abusing children as he doesn't get any credit for it. He constantly refers to it as an orientation and alternative sexuality. At no point do I get the sense that he comprehends how devastating child abuse really is. He dismisses his own experience of child sexual abuse as not particularly traumatic (which I think is a perfectly natural and understandable reaction, my problem is how he projects this to other people) and it seems to me that's how he sees it in general. He doesn't actually really think it's wrong to act on the urges, IMO, he just doesn't want to be a criminal. He says that he gets why society doesn't give paedophiles a break, but it doesn't make it easy for him with his "burden". It's all about him.

Virtuous Pedophiles? Yeah right.

So can they or can they not help their feelings?
Regardless what they can help is: Not causing long lasting damaging harm to children. And we have a duty to stop them.

I know this may contradict what I said in an earlier post, my first reaction was to write, no,no, no they deserve to have no one feel sorry for them.,, but this has actually stayed with me all evening, in my mind.

I think, as a human I've got to admit that it's sad. The general consensus is where paedophiles are concerned, most seem to believe that this means that they are actually committing the acts against children. I believe that all help should be given to these people, until they cross the line when they have acted on these thoughts.
At that point, harsh, harsh punishments do need to come into the situation. I faced abuse at the hands of my step sisters 2ND uncle, despite him being caught trying to rape me when I was less than four years old, he was found not guilty in court, and I now know of 6 other girls he abused. All who are now drug addicts of one sort or another. It causes such serious harm to victims.

I do think that there needs to be more of an understanding when it comes to ..I'm not sure if the correct term is non practising paedophiles?! People are quick to be disgusted and resort to vigilanteeism (real word?!) Which shouldn't be done, because it forces these people further into doubt, which makes it more dangerous for children.

I do think real funding needs to go into trying to treat them, before they commit these crimes, I think it would be much more effective than fixing the victims. I've been in and out of counselling since it happened. Almost 22 years ago, I dread to think what it's cost the NHS.

I just can't see a way of treatment, or a way that they can be accepted into society. Certainly not someone who I would trust anywhere near my children.

I also find myself unable to believe that these people haven't acted on these thoughts if they are so strong

a paedophile who cannot help it and would never act on it should not be forced underground and ostracised.

How do you know they would never act on it? If it's a mental illness for which there is no effective treatment other than to commit them to a secure hospital for the safety of children, or otherwise severely restrict their liberty in some way, would you support that as a treatment or solution?

And why don't you have any sympathy for a child molester? You know, if they really really couldn't help it? Must be heartbreaking for them if that happens.

I find it sinister how there is a push for paedophilia to be normalised as just another sexual orientation. It's not, it's a paraphilia and a very dangerous one.

I take it the people defending "virtuous" paedophiles would be perfectly happy letting one babysit their children?

I'm very wary of the "can't help it" defence, because it seems to be used as an attempted defence for things that are clearly choices.

An initial thought that randomly floats into your head (even repetitively) - ok yes, I can believe that a person can't help that.

Choosing to linger over the thought because it feels good - this is a choice

Concoting a fantasy scenario in your mind because it enhances the pleasure for you - this is a choice

Finding images and or stories to intensify your fantasy scenario/scenarios to heighten your pleasure even more - this is a choice

Finding people who share your fantasies so that you can all share your fantasies together and excite/pleasure yourselves even more - this is a choice

And this is all long before any child even need be involved at all. Once you get to the stage where you are downloading abuse images/videos or gazing at actual children, you are way past the stage of 'can't help it' and much further into actively choosing to pursue it for pleasure (and therefore also escalating the risk of your acting on it with a victim).

The man in the article was certainly demonstrating his choice-making ability with many of the examples he gave. He was making immoral/dangerous choices, despite knowing the risk of intensifying his urge into action.

I do not condone pedophilia, and I refuse to tolerate any kind of child abuse.

However, I do empathise with those who have a mental illness, and I believe that those with pedophilia should supported through mental health facilities. We do not wish for those with (non-offending) psychopathic disorders or schizophrenia to kill themselves, so why would we wish for (non-offending) pedophiles to?

Maybe I am a raging leftie on this issue, but I believe all people deserve our compassion and help if they need it. I am not a judge or an executioner, I am simply part of a community.

Did you read the article Canada? I found it nauseatingly self-justifying and with a lack of empathy for victims of child abuse, personally. I don't wish for him to kill himself, obviously (not sure why you think people here do), but that's about as far as my empathy stretches in this case I'm afraid.

And I am deeply concerned about the framing of paedophilia as an "alternative sexuality" as he repeatedly does and some people here appear to accept, rather than a paraphilia or harmful sexual fetish.

Yes to everything you said venus

Yes, KeepItDown, you've expressed exactly what I think. There's a very significant degree of choice involved.

How do people think risk is assessed in those offenders who are hospitalised/imprisoned?

A person's risk is only manageable when they have insight into the harm they pose to children, and motivation to not offend in future. Once an offender has insight and motivation, the therapeutic work can begin. This includes learning alternative cognitive and behavioural strategies in response to intrusive thoughts, truly empathising with victims and therapy for coming to terms with (often, but not always) traumatic childhoods.

He lost me at, "Many gays begin to recognise their sexual preference at around puberty... For me it was the same..." I'm
not gay but to conflate paedophilia, which is NOT a healthy adult sexuality with homosexuality which involves two consenting ADULTS is at best disingenuous and at worse outright disgusting.

Tootired - isn't risk assessed more often using structured risk assessment tools like the RSVP to get a more comprehensive assessment of future risk? Studies indicated risk is more reliably assessed using tools rather than clinician judgement which, if I remember correctly, is rarely above chance level.

This is not recent news . I tend to agree with OP that funded treatment programmes would be beneficial

It's a hot potato topic that's for sure

"Now kindly get the fuck off Mumsnet"

May I ask who gave you the authority to say this?

I don't need authority. This is Britain and I have the right to free speech. I think the op is unreasonable and I don't have one ounce of empathy with pedophiles.

I don't think free speech includes telling people to fuck off a public forum..............

Surely telling them to get off the forum would be going against their right to freedom of speech?

"Freedom of speech- so long as you agree with me"

Bert is certainly would seem that way.

I really hope you are just angling for the Daily Mail to publish this for your five minutes of fame, and not actually sympathising for fucking paedophiles.
If you have any empathy for paedophiles whatsoever you are no better than them. Fucking appalling. Obviously you've never been affected by one in any way, I have and the results are fucking devastating