To turn your attention to this article **Trigger warning: Child abuse. Title edited by MNHQ**

[NedStarksHead]

After a long and stressful debate/argument on FB, I'd like to turn your attention to these articles....

If you're one of the people who say "murder them all, they're all scum, they should be shot" then just read these and re-think.

Use different wording. A child molester is so different to a pedophile.

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/21/imaapedophilebuttnotaa_monster/

http://www.virped.org

" as saying we should understand and empathise with murderers"

Accurately speaking, it's the same as saying we should empathise with people who think with pleasure about murdering someone that's not me after seeing the mess the children have made of the sitting room today, oh no

Some people here seem to be competing to be the most outraged by Ned's post. The baseline is we're all sickened by child abuse. You don't have to prove your outrage.

I think there is (should be?) a wide gap between provision of services and public opinion.

Unfortunately the government often conveniently chooses to listen to public opinion when funding time comes round. However this is policy makers choice, and I strongly believe that the existence of specialist professional intervention should not be predicated on the court of public opinion.

There is a need for professional work with paedophiles past present and future. They need to be able to engage in services in different ways, from within high security facilities to early intervention preventative work.

These services should exist above and beyond the attempts of some vocal paedophiles to get their disgusting desire to hurt children made mainstream.

So, not an 'alternative lifestyle', no medals for 'just thinking' about damaging a child physically, mentally, emotionally. And not a course to pass via deceit, manipulation, charm. No end prize of being labelled to be 'safe to be with children'. And not a system that can be easily subverted into a breeding ground for paedophilia, so no informal or unsupervised group time.

I know that sounds a very high level of criteria, but I think you cannot ever set up infrastructure and ideology of this type of service with the rose tinted version of the poor put upon paedophile, who want to be cured if only society would be a bit nicer and overlook the odd 'slip'...

So basically, a high cost enterprise which has an open ended involvement as needed. One that runs on specialist knowledge, without the accompanying assumptions that engagement / treatment of paedophiles does not have to come from the perspective of wanting to excuse or normalise this terrible thing.

Btw I believe the work to help children who have been victims of abuse needs to be separate from this. And it needs to be good enough to actually help victims, not to wait then demonise them later when damage has been done and the poison spread.

does anyone seriously think that paedophilia is
a sexual orientation ....scary

To all the people hating on them. What do you suggest? I'm sorry, but if they're born with an attraction to children, what the fuck are they supposed to do? No, it all turns when they act on it and they are the worst of the worst, but they can't help the way they fill, if they're actively getting help, what honestly do you suggest? Do you seriously think they should be brutally murdered? Any one of us could have been born with that attraction, don't you feel fucking lucky it wasn't you? I'm sorry but I do have experience with it (family member affected by sexual abuse) and no, I absolutely do not feel any kind of sympathy or empathy for that person who did that. I feel sorry for the ones who have that attraction and go and get help, I don't understand why you wouldn't.

No Bert, where did it say you have to agree with me? I made my point strongly, you can make yours, you don't like my point but that's not my problem, in this country I can say what I like so long as it doesn't offend someone ethnicity etc etc however nowhere ever has anyone said ever I have to empathise, sympathise, or become woolly over people who want rape children, these people think it should be legal to have sex with a child. Have you read the article?

I understand people have different views to me, and that's ok, do I think it's right- no! And that's ok to.

Do people have the right to be rehabilitated? Yes I suppose they do, BUT in order to keep the young people, children and babies of this country and frankly the world safe we need to stand together I believe against what is absolutely wicked. Crimes too absolutely disgusting to be published, people so depraved they should be locked up for life and hat should mean until they die behind bars.

Unless you believe children are produced as playthings for people with sick ideas and you don't believe we should be protecting children first??

What would I do about them?

Well seeing as blasting £3 of brass through their heads would be deemed barbaric in 2016 I would ensure "not yet a sex offended but thinking about it" people are chemically castrated so their sex drive is zero and couldn't do anything about it if they tried. I suppose you have to have councilling which is the answer to everything and I would make them sigh a register like the sex offenders one which would make it illegal for them to be near a school, park or playground.

By offering support for those who completely agree that their thoughts are sick would be putting the children first. By forcing them to keep it to themselves and not seek help, they may be unable to control themselves later.

I've read the article and it's a big fat no from me. I have no sympathy or empathy for paedophiles whatsoever. As somebody who has suffered at the hands of 2 of them in the past and 'managed' NOT to turn in to one myself, I would rather douse myself in petrol and jump in to a fire than run the risk of ever putting a child through what my friends and I went through when we were young. Not suggesting that they should do that, obvs. But whatever. Still it's a big fat no.

Cubtrouble How do you identify the not yet a sex offended but thinking about it people so that they can be chemically castrated?

I can just see it now:
"I didn't mean for it to happen..."
"But I asked for help..."

By trying to turn it in to some sort of 'illness' - it's a way of deferring responsibility. "Nobody helped me, I didn't want to do it, I tried not to for so long, it's an illness, feel sorry for me".

Just no.

As a group of people I cannot have empathy. For the guy who wrote the article, yes. He was an isolated child who was prematurely sexualised. He is a human being who has suffered. He remains a social outcast. He has not committed an offence and does not want to harm or abide children, despite his predilection. He is somewhat self-pitying though, which doesn't bode well.

Not read the full thread yet so this may have been mentioned, but the article immediately put me in mind of a Matthew MacFadyen drama from about ten years ago called Secret Life. That left me similarly conflicted: I felt empathy and compassion for the paedophile (who in this case had offended but was desperate not to reoffend) but moral disgust at the idea that it could be considered a sexual orientation. It's not an easy watch but it's brilliant and whilst it has no answers, makes you think about it harder.

Guardian article here.

Should we chemically castrate men who enjoy fantasising about raping adult women too, and put them on the sex offenders register?

Abuse rather than abide

Fantasising about raping adult women is a risk factor for actually carrying out rape... So maybe we should!!

As a child who suffered from sexual abuse - No just NO. My life is ruined by what happened to me, every aspect of my life is affected to this day. I punish myself with self harm every day because of what happened to me still 20 yrs later I remember everything, EVERY DETAIL.

I and many people like ME will NEVER live normal lives because of people like them.

I would not trust any of them EVER they are self serving and should be in the same category as Psychopaths, I truly believe they are unable to feel anything for anyone other then themselves, it's all about how THEY feel.

and I'm sorry but a child's right to not be harmed and to live a normal life, trumps there's every fucking time.

This thread as made me feel sick and angry and given me panic attacks I will not be returning to it. But those 'empathising' with these people please consider how victims of child sexual Abuse will feel reading your words.

Aren't people miss understanding or have I head it wrong? I'm not empathising with people who actually harm the children, I'm empathising with the ones who feel this way and know it's wrong and seek help...?

nedstarkshead I watched a TV programme about this and agree with you, it's a terrible affliction and these people just want help to stop and/or control these thoughts/feelings. I can't believe the grief you're getting for your OP! You didn't in anyway say you empathised with child molesters, purely people who find themselves having attractions they know/feel are wrong and want help? I think some people just see red with this subject, whereas you're seeing the bigger picture. Help these people and you would have less offenders, it's quite sensible.

I was sexually abused as a child. I don't like to think of him as a sex offender but I guess that's what he is. I also know that he was sexually abused. He then went on to abuse me. I hate what he done. But I donto hate him.

I feel very sad for him. He has a bad drink problem and depression. The drink will probably kill him. He won't be happy for the rest of his life he's so unhappy. Although he should not have done what he did I don't him to die unhappy and alone

I think people are misinterpreting what the "empathisers" are saying. We aren't saying it's acceptable or people should be lenient towards them. We are saying that help should be given to those who ask for it. It is in no way acceptable to have those thoughts and my heart will ALWAYS be with the child but I do believe that if help is given, abuse might hopefully be less frequent.

"Fantasising about raping adult women is a risk factor for actually carrying out rape... So maybe we should!!"

Any other thought crimes we should prosecute people for?

Let's just get this straight - paedophilia is not a sexual orientation neither is it an 'affliction' or an illness or a condition or something to empathise or sympathise with - it's a fucking sick perversion like bestiality - or do we empathise with that too these days? . I've not misinterpreted this thread one little bit, and what you empathisers are saying is absolutely bonkers. Just because they haven't acted on their compulsions yet doesn't mean to say they won't. It's not like they're going to stand up and say they're just about to rape a child is it? And when they do act upon it - BANG - that's another innocent life ruined. I'm flouncing off this thread now because I'm finding it really upsetting. There's tolerance and then there's this absolute lunacy. Night all.

How do you know it's not a sexual orientation? How do you know people are not born with it, when so many say they are? How do you know it's an "active" choice to be attracted to children.

How can you know anything? How can any of us know with absolute certainty what we're saying is correct, if none of us are actually pedophiles?