To turn your attention to this article **Trigger warning: Child abuse. Title edited by MNHQ**

[NedStarksHead]

After a long and stressful debate/argument on FB, I'd like to turn your attention to these articles....

If you're one of the people who say "murder them all, they're all scum, they should be shot" then just read these and re-think.

Use different wording. A child molester is so different to a pedophile.

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/21/imaapedophilebuttnotaa_monster/

http://www.virped.org

"This thread is awful. The amount of torches and pitchforks ffs.

it seems as though you would like the public to be more "understanding" of their "sexual orientation" and have it as accepted as being gay or straight

This by far is the most ridiculous comment I've seen. Nobody is arguing that abusing kids should be tolerated HOWEVER having the thoughts and not acting on them and asking for help should be supported.

You all clutch pearls when you see news reports of gangs stoning people to death over "rumored indiscretions" in some far flung place in the world but you're all just as bad as that. GRAB THE TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS"

^this.

Why do people keep putting words in everyone's mouth? Nobody ever said child abuse was okay? Where do you people keep plucking that from?

"too often we suffer in silence"

This article is fascinating, but not for the reasons the op supposes.

What the article does is show just how powerful "narratives of victimhood" now are in our culture and how people with socially unacceptable ideas and perspectives have caught on to the fact that you can construct a narrative of victimhood to excuse almost any kind of behaviour or perspective, and it will work with some people.

Satsuki I think we are approaching a situation where there is a reluctance to draw a line anywhere.

Yes, I think so too. But a line does have to be drawn somewhere. I think we are living in a time when normalcy bias is so ingrained in our culture, and so backed up by what is essentially propaganda, that we can no longer see the wood from the trees.

It's worth examining exactly why our society outlaws sexual contact with children. If you put the "sexual" aspect to one side (because that clouds the issue and pertains only to motive), this type of contact with children inevitably involves physical assault of some sort, sometimes to the level of GBH.

This is what this man is really saying: that he has fantasies about physically assaulting children and that we should try to understand him because of the nature of his motive for wanting to do so.

This is not too far off asking us to empathise with someone who has fantasies about abducting and murdering women because "reasons".

There comes a point where our society is going to have to wake up and realise that there really are some very twisted individuals out there and they aren't anything like you or anyone you know. That not everyone is misunderstood. That not everyone is essentially good inside. That some people really are violent psychopaths, there's nothing anyone can do about it, nothing in particular caused it, and any reason for it pales into insignificance compared to the harm of their perspectives and actions.

^^THIS

But especially the last paragrapgh

If it was more acceptable for pedophiles to come 'out' then maybe more would, they could get help and children would be safer as a result. There are other countries that successfully do this.

I dont have sympathy for them but I would support helping them get treatment so that they dont offend.

I suppose it all depends if it's even possible to 'reform' a paedophile - which is no means certain

There are lots of people who have urges to do unspeakable things but resist- we have no idea how many people around us have paedophilic tendencies. If we look at art and literature and history and pornography, probably a lot more than we think.

I think it is entirely possible for someone to be attracted to children and never act on it. Just as people are attracted to males/female and never assault them or act on it, as mentioned earlier in the thread those who marry heterosexually and never have the homosexual experience they desire.
However the 'treatment' is going to be tricky.
I've read a blog post from a paramedic about a man they picked up who was trying to kill himself and had tried many tines, it came out it was because he fantasised about having sex with children but knew it was awful and could only see suicide as an option.
I've no idea what should be done but the empathetic side of me feels for the person who knows they are wrong but can do nothing about it.

I object to paedophilia being called a 'sexual orientation'. It's not. It's a mental illness that needs treatment.

OP,
I've read the first page, of this thread, can I just say that as a survivor of sexual abuse, I believe myself and other victims should be the ones who have your empathy?

I have never spoken to anyone candidly about the abuse I faced as a child, but let me tell you, one of my first memories is of sexual abuse I suffered, there are so many parts of my life that are fucked up because of what was done to me.
Panic attacks have been triggered during the act of sexual intercourse, It affects many parts of being a parent. I could list so many areas that what that monster did to me has ruined my life.

Don't you dare try to make people believe that they should be pitied, they are dangerous.

I would imagine that most people who live celibate lives do so because they want to, and not because the type of sexual activity they are drawn to is both illegal and harmful. So its a very different thing.

Actually, I live a celibate life, and that's not because I want to, but because the men I would want to have sex with don't want to have sex with me - or at least not want to be in a committed relationship with me, I didn't bother asking about no-strings-attached sex.

It's rather easy. I feel no compulsion to drag random men off the streets and rape them.

@BertrandRussell:
I notice that most people are not happy with addressing the mainstream "young teen" porn issue. Its popularity would seem to suggest that more people have some paedophilic tendencies than we would like to think.

Indeed.
Did someone link this article already?

www.feministcurrent.com/2015/09/28/youve-heard-of-rape-culture-but-have-you-heard-of-pedophile-culture/

I don't understand how anybody couldn't have empathy with that situation.

Empathy is not the same as sympathy which is a bloody long way from encouragement.

A paedophile is not necessarily a child abuser. One is absolutely deserving of empathy, unless he or she crosses the line and becomes the other.

I gave the benefit of the doubt and did indeed have a look at the two links. I'm pretty disgusted to be honest and suspected OP might be a troll but previous posting history suggests otherwise. I hate the way people who either have or are thinking about committing sexual crimes try to justify their behavior. Lets swap it round and change it to theft. I can't resist Vivienne Westwood hand bags, I think about them all the time. If I went and robbed the Vivienne Westwood shop would that be acceptable? Do I deserve some kind of fucking medal or pat on the back for NOT shoplifting? Should taxpayers money be spent on me getting over my love of those particular handbags? Of course not. I should just obey the bloody law and accept I can't afford one. It's the same for sex offenders. No sympathy at all for them, they basically enjoy causing pain and misery. It has nothing to do with sexual preferences and everything to do with being manipulative controlling and devious. I hope the police catch up with each and every one and lock them up for an exceptionally long time.

I agree op , it must be just appalling to feel that way and know how vile society thinks you are. I understand other people's views and not being willing to empathise with such an unacceptable desire . Although it's absolutely ridiculous to say it shouldn't be on a site that parents and grandparents use... Are we only allowed to talk about toys and prams now?

Bog empathy is not the same as sympathy. That's why they are different words. But I do think it's a massive ask to empathise with a pedophile for anyone.

hungryhippo90, I am sorry for what happened to you but I dont think anyone on this thread is trying to empathize with child rapists/abusers. The child is ALWAYS the victim and anyone abusing them should be in prison.

We are discussing people who haven't ever abused a child but self diagnose themselves as at risk of doing so and ask for help, not condemnation, to make sure they never do.

Sorry bog just re read your comment were on the same page!!

As to whether or not tax payers money should be used to treat them. Yes, absolutely, if it helps protect our children from abuse then I am happy to treat them. Its like saying we shouldn't use tax payers money to stop people becoming radicalized and committing mass murder

They are NOT being rewarded with a free handbag, they are being given drugs, therapy and monitored.

The more I read, the more I think the OP really does deserve a giant

being able to keep track of those who have never offended

How?

it must be just appalling to feel that way and know how vile society thinks you are

I'm kinda surprised that some posters seem to be of the belief that you can't change feelings or thoughts. Feelings change all the time. So do thoughts. Mental health services in this country are pretty based on the notion that you can change your thoughts and feelings towards something; that's why they funnel people into CBT and other forms of talking therapy.

For most people, knowing that society finds something they think and feel is "vile" tends to make them reassess their perspectives. Yet here we have someone who knew from a very early age that his thoughts were "wrong" and that wider society did not accept them, yet never appears to have sought to challenge those thoughts. Instead, he appears to have indulged them with other like-minded individuals on forums.

This is where I question his subtle attempt to make a correlation between sexual orientation and his paedophilia. I read from it that he is trying to get us to associate his paedophilia with other forms of once prohibited sexuality, such as homosexuality, in the hope that our socially liberal minds won't notice that ...

1. homosexuality does not automatically equate to assault.
2. there is no paedophile gene.
3. no-one is born with a predilection for sexual contact with children
4. paedophilia is not a sexual orientation, it's a deviancy because it, by default, involves an sexual action acted on another person without consent, which puts it on the same level as rape.

This is why I simply do not understand the above comment about how appalling it must be.

It's like saying "it must be so horrendous to feel like you want to rape young women in the park and to know that society thinks you are vile for that."

Come on, people. Engage your brains. Before they fall out.

Just watching the BBC News which said that anew crime survey showed that 11% of women and 3% of men were sexually abused or raped as kids. That is a lot of kids.

'As to whether or not tax payers money should be used to treat them. Yes, absolutely, if it helps protect our children from abuse'
It won't protect our children from abuse though will it? Abusers will abuse and the only thing to stop them is vigilance and cold hard prison walls. I do accept that some people with mental health problems suffer with intrusive thoughts that they are child sex offenders. I really feel for those people. They can be treated as that is a symptom of a wider mental health problem. However I have no time/empathy/sympathy for these 'woe is me I'm a victim too stories'. They aren't victims, they are criminals and the only thing I want to see my money being spent on is a bloody massive prison for the lot of them.

Werkz. I disagree, acting on your desires makes it assault. Knowing it is what you desire and how wrong it is is not assault. I am a CBT I have worked with this area and CBT is not conversion therapy or mind control .
This is a very thorny complex area and I absolutely don't have all the answers but if my adult child told me they desired children sexually is be devastated for them and know this most likely meant at best a very sad solitary life and at worst let's not even go there.
This in no way condones or supports child abuse in any sense.
If there was a simple answer we'd be using it.