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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To turn your attention to this article **Trigger warning: Child abuse. Title edited by MNHQ**

503 replies

NedStarksHead · 03/08/2016 11:55

After a long and stressful debate/argument on FB, I'd like to turn your attention to these articles....

If you're one of the people who say "murder them all, they're all scum, they should be shot" then just read these and re-think.

Use different wording. A child molester is so different to a pedophile.

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/21/imaapedophilebuttnotaa_monster/

http://www.virped.org

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 04/08/2016 12:14

Many people lead celibate lives. Is there any evidence to show that doing this would be harder for a paedophile than anyone else?

BertrandRussell · 04/08/2016 12:15

How do we know that there are not lots of pedophiles doing just that all around us?

PollyPerky · 04/08/2016 12:15

The BBC ran a film /drama about this last year - it was fiction- and included a paedophile. As far as I recall, after being in prison and released, he went into voluntary therapy with a psychiatrist. The medical treatment alongside was chemical castration. This takes away desire and also the ability to have an erection (I think). However, the medical treatment was voluntary and at the end of the film he committed suicide because the treatment was not enough to deter him from offending again and he hated himself.

I am a parent. I can't defend paedophiles, but I do think that as a civilised society we have to try to understand WHY they behave as they do, not forget they are some mother's child (and there will be posters reading this who may find out their son is a paedophile in years to come) and at least try to work out a way of dealing with the problem society faces with these men, why they behave as they do, if it's biology or parenting, if they can be treated or managed, and not just want to chop off their balls and lock them up forever.

PageStillNotFound404 · 04/08/2016 12:16

StrawberryMummy where is this available therapy? That's part of the issue that the OP has raised and that others have referred to - that access to the right type of therapy for those who have paedophiliac thoughts but don't want to act on them is near-impossible, either because it simply doesn't exist or because as soon as someone opens their mouth to say "I don't want to think like this, help me" the flaming torches are lit and the pitchforks sharpened.

Difficult conversations need to be had before that changes, so that more children can be helped by helping those trying not to harm them.

And before anyone tries to get their competitive outrage on, I spent ten years prosecuting criminals including sex offenders, including child molesters, so I have empathy for the victims of those who did act on their impulses coming out of my ears, having seen at first hand the damage they can do.

That doesn't mean I can't spare a little bit of empathy for those who don't want to end up as abusers but who find it impossible to get any kind of practical support in helping them overcome or suppress their urges in a society peopled almost exclusively with people who would chop their balls off if given half a chance. It must be a horrible way to live, loathing being inside your own head.

powershowerforanhour · 04/08/2016 12:18

Has anyone seen the film The Woodsman with Kevin Bacon in it? It's ages since I've seen it so can't remember it clearly. I thought it was quite good, but they made him less manipulative than the"average" child molester and seemed to go for just very screwed up (which makes sense if you want your audience to watch the film and not just 100% hate the character and walk out, but is probably not very realistic).

Rinoachicken · 04/08/2016 12:20

But there is no 'right type of therapy', there is no cure for pelaedophilia.

It's perfectly plausible that there are paedophiles accessing therapy privately all around and successfully not acting out. Great.

So why is this guy moaning and whining? Sound like it's just an excuse

HeddaLettuce · 04/08/2016 12:25

Many people lead celibate lives. Is there any evidence to show that doing this would be harder for a paedophile than anyone else?
How do we know that there are not lots of pedophiles doing just that all around us?

I would imagine that most people who live celibate lives do so because they want to, and not because the type of sexual activity they are drawn to is both illegal and harmful. So its a very different thing.

But I imagine there are plenty of people who have leanings in many directions that don't actually act on those leanings

NeedACleverNN · 04/08/2016 12:25

So why is this guy moaning and whining? Sound like it's just an excuse

The same reason transactivists moan and complain. They want to validate their feelings above everything else and be told it's ok to feel that way

HeddaLettuce · 04/08/2016 12:27

Are you really ok with a pedophile fantasizing having sex with your baby just because they don't act on it? I'm not. Keep them away from all children

Am I OK with it? No, of course not. But if you start imprisoning people for their thoughts, you're nothing but a facist. You can't control what people THINK about.

BertrandRussell · 04/08/2016 12:29

"I would imagine that most people who live celibate lives do so because they want to, and not because the type of sexual activity they are drawn to is both illegal and harmful. So its a very different thing." Why? Surely it would be easier to be celibate if you knew that your sexual desires were harmful?

Rinoachicken · 04/08/2016 12:32

bertrand I agree, surely you'd want to do what ever it takes to do no harm to others

ClopySow · 04/08/2016 12:32

The same reason transactivists moan and complain. They want to validate their feelings above everything else and be told it's ok to feel that way

Fucking mumsnet BINGO!!!!

Any chance to have a dig at trans.

Rinoachicken · 04/08/2016 12:32

Unless of course you don't really and it's just the easy excuse of your typical manipulative paedophile

HeddaLettuce · 04/08/2016 12:34

Why? Surely it would be easier to be celibate if you knew that your sexual desires were harmful?

I would have thought its easier to be celibate if you have no sexual desire than if you do, wouldn't you?
I can't say what its like to be in the mind of a paedophile, so I can't really answer.

CarrotAndCucumber · 04/08/2016 12:36

When society thought that being gay was completely unacceptable and people thought there was something wrong with themselves and didn't want to feel like that, then yes they'd 'force' themselves to be celibate or marry heterosexually. I imagine some paedophiles do that now - know it's wrong to feel like that, ignore their urges and 'act normal'. They're not the ones writing whiney articles about it though!

NeedACleverNN · 04/08/2016 12:36

Any chance to have a dig at trans

No I said transactivists! They can be anyone. I picked them in specific because they are the ones shouting loudest at the moment

Rinoachicken · 04/08/2016 12:36

Choosing a life of celibacy doesn't mean you have no sexual desire, it just means you have chosen/publicly committed to in no what act or dwell on those desires through discipline of mind.

YelloDraw · 04/08/2016 12:36

They need support and help

I agree. People don't choose to be sexually attracted to children. If people accept they are attracted to children and do everything possible NOT to act on it. Nothing physical, no looking at pictures etc then they surely needs help - counseling, drugs, whatever to help them to continue NOT to act on their desires.

Help shoudl be there before any crime is committed, not just available as rehabilitation after someone has been harmed,

You can't lock people up for thought crime.

Rinoachicken · 04/08/2016 12:37

carrot exactly!!

CarrotAndCucumber · 04/08/2016 12:38

Not everybody celibate has no sexual desire - in religious orders for example, they use celibacy as a trade off for something better. If they weren't in the order they'd probably go out with people and marry quite happily.

HeddaLettuce · 04/08/2016 12:45

Choosing a life of celibacy doesn't mean you have no sexual desire

It certainly does, for SOME people, which is why I said SOME people.

And I wouldn't be quoting about religious people being either celibate or on a thread about peadophiles. Bit close to the bone.

Rinoachicken · 04/08/2016 12:48

Actually Hedda you said most people who are celibate.

At least quote yourself correctly

CarrotAndCucumber · 04/08/2016 12:51

I was actually thinking about nuns, (all the vicars I know are married) but I take your point.

But, derailing slightly - if you have no sexual desire are you actually choosing to be celibate? Isn't it more like not bring fussed about swimming and never learning - you wouldn't say "I chose to be a non-swimmer" iyswim.

BertrandRussell · 04/08/2016 12:52

"I would have thought its easier to be celibate if you have no sexual desire than if you do, wouldn't you? "

Well, obviously. But people choose celibate lives for all sorts of reasons. Surely a very good reason would be the knowledge that your sexual desires were morally wrong and illegal?

Some people also have more than one sort of sexual proclivity- maybe some paedophiles also have satisfying sex lives in other, acceptable ways?

I notice that most people are not happy with addressing the mainstream "young teen" porn issue. Its popularity would seem to suggest that more people have some paedophilic tendencies than we would like to think.

Rinoachicken · 04/08/2016 12:59

A large number of paedophiles also have fully sexual relationships with adults

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