If he doesn't want a baby, you shouldn't seek CSA

[NeedACleverNN]

Why the hell is this line still trotted out?

I've even seen it on here. Woman falls pregnant, boyfriend doesn't want it and wants an abortion. She doesn't. People advise her to keep the baby and let him go. Don't bother seeking child maintenance because he didn't want the baby in the first place.

No!! If he didn't want a baby he should take his own precautions to preventing pregnancy. You don't like condoms? You don't have sex!

Surely it cant of been a woman that typed that shite? If it is then jesus wept

Well done MummyBex 💐🍸

The fact that CSA is SO low is a WHOLE other thread isn't it. It's beyond ridiculous.

Not crazy about the word 'trapped'. Let's face it, in 2016, most men who feel they were 'trapped' into having a child, buggered off years ago. Any Mumsnetters still with the guy they 'trapped'?

I wonder if men would be so keen to enforce pregnancy or abortion if the woman had the right to make them experience the same physical agonies and complications (as closely mimicked as possible), all in the name of fairness of course!

Under this "fair" plan, my DH would have been made to vomit several times a day for months, had 3 days being physically tortured until screaming (failed epidural with a back-to-back induction via drip), had his perineum sliced open with sexual pain ever after, and bled out until he thought he was going to die (nearly did).

That's not even accounting for all the pregnancy symptoms, all the after-birth symptoms, and many of the effects on my body and mind that will last forever... and this was a much wanted baby!

Honestly, I think if men really faced up to a "fair" sharing of the physical/mental costs involved, not just the choices, they would be absolutely horrified, and a hell of a lot more traumatised.

Can't actually believe what I've read.

Eienna - your views are scary.

I really hope you don't have daughters.

No man should have to pay child support if he asked her to abort and made clear he didnt want a child

OR he could instead pre-plan and do one of two things -

1. Use contraception. And I don't wanna hear whining about "she said she was on the pill" - if you don't want a baby that much, you need o be foolproof
2. Choosing a sexual partner more carefully who has the same principles on child-having as them.

But no, that would get in the way of their fucking anything that moves without a care in the world. They may even have to get to know someone before sleeping with them. But we all know men's dicks are more important than anything else in the world.

I know not everyone on MN has kids but it's not hard to figure out they cost money. You'd think it fine for an actual human child to go 18 years potentially living in poverty because a manchild couldn't face up to his responsibilities.

God I HATE this infantilisation of men, the thought that the poor dears are tricked by evil wimmin, when we all know they just cant help putting their dick in everything. But facing up to the consequences of dick-putting-in? No no no - we can't have that. Far more acceptable to let children suffer

Seriously, give yourself a fucking shake love

pinky Yes, yes and yes. Thank fuck for your post. Can finally go to bed. (breathes big sigh and puts pj's on)

ha! funny you should say that about being 'trapped' After 6 miscarriages when actively TTC, actual convo with long term plan laid out would you believe!, with my EX (DCs dad) 6 times it was flippin OBVIOUS I could get pregnant easily, He still to this day thinks I tricked him into having a child and had DC for 'the money'.

wouldn't mind but from day 1 he knew my contraceptive status. Condoms or risk a Stroke. He had the option to have a vasectomy at any point or you know... just have a wank.

Recent Ex was well aware of this and would try other sexual pursuits massive toy box rather than just penetrative sex so we both got off with out the risk of pregnancy. we had sex of course, we used condoms and would aim for when I was least fertile. 2 years and not a single fail except the time I was 10 days late for no reason at all bastard aging its 100% doable to have an active sex life and remain pregnancy free if you have limited options but the man needs to be fully on board and not think of sex as just penetrative. Thing is though, a lot of chaps want the quick thrust and be done without thinking of the consequences. That's where the problem is. If that's what they want then they must remember Sex = risk of pregnancy and he has the option right up until the point of penetration to stop, to put on a condom, to choose alt methods of getting off and an alternative place to deposit his seed instead of in the one place that will make a flippin baby.

Just Maybe non-penetrative sex should be taught alongside 'how to make a baby' (great for inclusiveness of LGBT relationships too btw)

I personally think any female who uses the word 'trapped' about a man who has conceived a child but no longer contributes to, should have their title of 'Woman' removed, and be demoted to 'girl'. Don't worry, Badger, I'm sure men (and girls) will continue to talk about guys being 'trapped'. Funny how the women left behind are the ones that have to reconsider their jobs/finances/entire bloody lives while the our 'prisoners' live exactly how they want....

Just my 2 cents but I think the whole pregnancy/abortion thing is a red herring. Of course it's up to the woman, and only the woman, whether or not to carry the foetus to term, because it's HER body. Well, not according to some, but let's ignore that...

But once the child is actually born, and no longer a part of someone else's body, it's a whole different ballgame. I'm not actually sure of the legal position but if the mother can chose to sign away her parental rights, and therefore all financial (and other) responsibilities for the child, then it would be unfair for the father not to have the same option.

Once born, both parents should have the option to either retain PR or sign it away, surely? We would never say to a woman "you chose to have unprotected sex, you chose not to get the MAP, then you chose not to have a termination, so now you've created this baby you can bloody well look after it and pay for it".

ExtraHotLatte 'Slight good news is that I don't believe it's a woman who typed that bile.' I agree.

Women who think men should have to give consent for a woman to have an abortion ought to try living in a country where abortion is illegal. Though if they are so opposed to women having bodily autonomy, perhaps they'd love that. I'll tell you though, being 17, and terrified, and wanting to not be pregnant, and having to travel to another country to have an abortion is fairly fucking awful.

That 17 year old was me. I'm heavily involved in the pro-choice, repeal the eighth movement. I've accompanied young women seeking abortions to the UK when they had no-one else to do so.

I fight the fucking fight constantly, for women to have bodily autonomy here. To be told that we should have to get permission from men to exercise our right to control what happens inside our own bodies fucking enrages me.

But if the parents of a child arent together or are unmarried then the father has no pr as he has to be present to sign the birth certificate

It's interesting that there are so many views on this.

PP have mentioned that the interests of the child should come first. I wholeheartedly agree, and since I became sexually active as a teen I insisted on using 2 methods of contraception simultaneously with boyfriends. Had I fallen pregnant by some miracle in spite of that, I would have had an abortion as it wouldn't have felt right to bring a child into the world in that situation- they deserve to be planned and wanted for by both parents.

It just seemed logical that if I hadn't had a clear conversation about wanting a baby and starting a family with whichever boyfriend I was with at the time, the time almost certainly wasn't right to have one (and/or they weren't the right man to have it with!).

I honestly don't understand why more women don't seen to think in a similar way. It never seemed right to take big risks where I might risk conceiving a child in My body that wasn't planned and wanted for by both parents, so insisting on 2 types of contraception to ensure it didn't push me into a position of possibly conceiving seemed the right thing to do. Only after getting engaged to now DH did we drop to 1 contraception only.

It's sad enough when long term marriages and relationships where kids were planned break down, but I don't get why so many seem so laid back about choosing to have a child with someone they haven't had an open conversation with about actively choosing to make a child...not when contraception is so readily available and even free.

My DH has been slagged off to anyone who'd listen for over a decade for 'not supporting his kids' which is bullshit by the way he always gave whatever was asked of him whenever he could.
However when the tables were turned and the CSA ordered HER to pay maintenance it finally got dragged out of her by DEO. Fucking twisted bitch

My DH has been slagged off to anyone who'd listen for over a decade for 'not supporting his kids' which is bullshit by the way he always gave whatever was asked of him whenever he could.
However when the tables were turned and the CSA ordered HER to pay maintenance it finally got dragged out of her by DEO. Fucking twisted bitch

Fuck me that awful post has made me feel sick.

Although I'm cheered up abit thinking about the post telling us men will be able to have babies in our lifetime!
Wtaf!?!?! Hahaha you donkey.

I always find there's correlation to the "she's trying to trap me" or "she's in it for the money" train of thought and men who -

1. Are not in a relationship with said woman, therefore confused how trapping works
2. Are only entitled to give about £18 a week to their child anyway.

And I recently saw on a FB group someone slating her BF's ex for getting her nails done "that's where our £60 a week goes then" never mind that the mum has a job of her very own, even if you win the lottery if you're a single mum who gets CS, you must eat baked beans for the rest of your days and never treat yourself to anything, not even a new toothbrush, because even getting a penny a week means your lifestyle is afforded by a Trapped Man and you owe him your poverty. Of course same Trapped Man can spend bugger all on his kids but get pissed every weekend, and still get a pat on the back for spending 2 hours a week with his offspring in KFC. It seems that not being a 100% absent father means he's Such A Good Dad

Can you tell it makes me rage?

Although I'm cheered up abit thinking about the post telling us men will be able to have babies in our lifetime!

Haven't you heard men already give birth to babies? The men with wombs and vaginas that is (sorry that's a whooole other topic)

proud 'fucking twisted bitch'?!! Oh boy.

exactly lorelei whilst I've been a carer to my DC, DCs dad has been having a whale of a time going out clubbing and such most weekends over the last 8 years or so.

orchids I am pretty sure parental responsibility is gained if a father puts his name on the birth certificate or gets a court order granting parental responsibility. It is automatically given to the woman but then that's because of biology and it being pretty obvious she is the mother.

But parental responsibility is very different for financial responsibility www.gov.uk/parental-rights-responsibilities/who-has-parental-responsibility Parental responsibility allows a parent to make important decisions regarding medical treatment and schooling. Financial just means you pay for the upkeep of the child.

A mother cannot put a fathers name on the birth certificate herself unless she is married to him. This means it is the responsibility of the father to ensure his name is put on it. Either at the time of registering the birth, by filling in a form the mother can take if he cant attend or after via court order.

Many men refuse to register their child's birth with the mother because of CSA. If its on the birth certificate the CSA automatically seek payment from them and that's why they avoid it. Fwiw my EX refused to put his name on DCs birth certificate. I told him the date, the time and location to register. He threw away his parental responsibility when he refused to show up.

Obviously parental responsibility can be taken away from either parent at any time with a court order. eg for adoption.

Parental responsibility or not though a father still has to pay Child support unless he can prove he is not the father and it is in the best interests of the father and child to obtain a DNA test if needed as soon as possible.

KittensWithWeapons is there a charity page or place you can donate money to help fund things like that? me and a few friends were wondering if such a charity existed because over here we are just as disgusted women have to travel miles from home alone for such a procedure.

PinkyofPie

Your post reminds me of my exs wife. She was moaning recently (at my dc of all people) that 'they' shouldn't have to pay me maintenance. It's not fair. 'They' are sick of 'funding my lifestyle' and the money 'they' pay me is meant to be for the dc.

What caused this particular rant? I've booked a (cheap) caravan break in October for me and dc. Apparently that's not fair as they can't afford this . (They've had 3 'family holidays' to haven and the like this year... none of which my dc were taken on)

'They' pay me £5 per week (ending soon with closure of csa) and I only get that as it's taken directly from his benefits.
OTOH I work full time to fund things such as cheap caravan holidays in October. (I couldn't afford the prices in the summer holidays).

But then he's also told people I 'trapped' him into having the dc.

I went out a while but have to laugh at the "women trapping men" bullshit.

Many non-resident parents pay £0-£7 per week. That's because they are actively avoiding paying, in prison or on benefits. £0-£7 per week is not gold digging money. If you were going to be a gold digger you'd be going for a Premier League footballer or major movie star.

I'm guessing that Einna is is not a parent so doesn't realise how much children cost or is one of these men who don't think it's fair that they have to pay a pittance in maintenance. Pregnancy and childbirth can have massive physical and mental implications on a woman's body. For a man
the closest thing I can think of is serving on the front line of a war. You may die or return but be changed forever.

Twatbadging, thank you for asking. And for the solidarity. It truly is disgusting that Irish women have to travel to the UK to exercise our right to bodily autonomy.

The women I assisted were through private groups, so I can't share details here. Though the women I know would be thrilled to have your support.

The Abortion Support Network do wonderful work and would very much appreciate your donations.

Twatbadging, you could also volunteer to be a host. ASN are currently looking for hosts in Birmingham. Of course, it's not for everyone. It's a difficult thing to do. But if you or any of your friends might be in a position to do it, it's a great way to offer assistance.

Once born, both parents should have the option to either retain PR or sign it away, surely?

Neither parent can, or should be allowed to, sign away PR at birth. PR stands for parental responsibility and the only way it can be severed is through court order. If a child is relinquished for adoption then PR is severed when it is granted to the new parents. Otherwise if you are a woman who gives birth then you have PR until the child is 18, likewise a man who is married to the mother or on the birth certificate.

It's not parental rights, it's responsibility to the child. Children have the right to know who their parents are as far as possible and to be supported by them.