If he doesn't want a baby, you shouldn't seek CSA

[NeedACleverNN]

Why the hell is this line still trotted out?

I've even seen it on here. Woman falls pregnant, boyfriend doesn't want it and wants an abortion. She doesn't. People advise her to keep the baby and let him go. Don't bother seeking child maintenance because he didn't want the baby in the first place.

No!! If he didn't want a baby he should take his own precautions to preventing pregnancy. You don't like condoms? You don't have sex!

I'm not sure about what should happen if a parent is mentally/physically ill or incapacitated - they wouldn't be able to pay up or care for their children then. Maybe there should be a special clause. But would this be abused by abusive absent parents?

And what about children who end up in care because both parents are deemed abusive/neglectful. Should they not be paying up? Unless they are mentally/physically ill and unable to care for their children.

Children's rights to care and support needs a good overhaul I think.

Oh god.picking out one of the less offensive bits, why would you assume the taxpayer pays if the 'father' doesn't?

I agree about men getting the fairer deal eyebrowsonfleek Just attending anything relating to being a single parent and seeing single dads get a better deal than a single mum. Just look how they are portrayed in the media.

There is nothing at all equal when it comes to raising a child. Men are almost always better off.

However, I also think that if the woman doesn't want the baby and the guy does, he should have every right to apply to court for her to continue to term rather than get an abortion, and then he raise the baby alone and she wash her hands of it. I hate the fact that a woman gets to choose whether the baby comes into the world or not regardless of the fathers wishes

No, no, no, no, no, no and no

Until pregnancy affects a mans health and body, they do not get a single say in whether a woman aborts her pregnancy or not

Tell you what. If he wants a baby and she does they can implant it into his uterus.
A plan without flaws....

I actually think that if the woman doesn't use protection and the man does, and she falls pregnant anyway, then keeps the baby when he wants an abortion, he should be able to sign away parental rights and refuse to pay for the kid.

This is bollocks. For a myriad of health reasons my only contraceptive options are a condom and I'm allergic to latex so I provide them always.

Are yo saying because I cannot, for health reasons - stroke ffs - use the pill I should be punished if I fall pregnant because I didn't do anything to prevent it?

However, I also think that if the woman doesn't want the baby and the guy does, he should have every right to apply to court for her to continue to term rather than get an abortion, and then he raise the baby alone and she wash her hands of it.

and with this will he pay for all and any medical treatment, maternity clothing, transport to and from essential appointments, wages lost attending these appointments, therapy afterwards if PND is diagnosed, topping up sick pay if she has to take time off because the pregnancy has damaged her body and/or mental health not to mention the possibility of needing long term psychotherapy having been forced to endure a pregnancy she did not want and to come to terms with the after effects on her body.

Honestly now? we're talking £1000s here for this alone.

Why the hell should men get any power or say over what happens to a woman's body?

Is this shit for real? and being said by women?

FFS

NeedACleverNN with all due respect to your opinion - I have had two difficult pregnancies and births, as well as one pregnancy forcefully terminated at 19 weeks when her father beat me half to death because I wouldn't get an abortion. I'm in counselling for the traumatic pregnancies/births, but I've given up on trying to get over the loss of that baby, and I've seen men just as fucked up by women aborting children they want. This is my big issues with the subject matter - women aborting wanted babies DOES effect a mans health, it DOES effect a mans body, if someone kills a kid that you want it damned well effects you and it effects you a LOT and it effects you for the rest of your life.

Congratulations Einna

With one post you have just single handedly took away all rights for a woman to have autonomy over her own body. Well done

Until pregnancy affects a mans health and body, they do not get a single say in whether a woman aborts her pregnancy or not
This. Pregnancy can leave women disabled ffs. She shouldn't be forced to take that risk because a man wants her to.

My ex sees the children once every fortnight (his choice).
If he was resident parent and I saw children the same frequency, the same people would assume that Social Services were involved (and preventing me from seeing them) or that I was a shitter than shit parent.

Until the day that men have a uterus and give birth then they should have no rights over a woman's pregnancy and responsibility to the child when it's born. They have rights to their sperm before the woman is inseminated during IVF but other than that they should be protecting themselves from STDs anyway so contraception is hardly a big ask!

No sane adult man would EVER accept a woman forcing them to have a medical procedure that is physically and emotionally draining and prevented them from going to work for a while. Ive tried to think of something similar to abortion/childbirth but the best that I can think of is dental work or vasectomies (teeth can be replaced with fake ones and vasectomies can sometimes be reversed)

That's funny

I have had to have corrective surgery because of my children. Intensive physio because of pregnancy. I still suffer now. My dh may have suffered mentally but he's ok physically

why would you assume the taxpayer pays if the 'father' doesn't?
But the way the law is now is that even if the father is paying, if the mother has no other income, the taxpayer still pays as she is entitled to claim benefits and any maintenance that she receives does not affect the amount of benefits she is entitled to.

From the CAB website -
"Child maintenance is not counted as income for means-tested benefits such as Income Support, income-based Jobseeker's Allowance (JSA) and Housing Benefit.
This means if you're getting maintenance you won’t get less money in these benefits. Other benefits which aren’t means-tested won’t be affected either."

Einna - Women are people. They are not machines with switches that can be turned on and off. Your post terrifies me. In your world would you force a raped woman or a vunerable person like a child to carry their rapists's baby? What about if the baby is disabled and would have a terrible quality of life when born?

When women decide to terminate they are 99,999999% of times making a responsible adult decision. Children deserve love and a good life and if they can't have that then abortion might be the correct choice.

Oh I thought you'd just stated that the taxpayer pays. Didn't read the "If the mother has no other income" and wanted to make the point that some mothers, even some single mothers, work.

Pregnancy carries the risk of death. Actual death. No woman should be forced to risk her life to carry a child that she does not want regardless of whether the father does want it or not.

I really don't know why in 2016 we have accidental pregnancy.

To me it should be both parents paying for that child, regardless of what happens to the child after it is born.

Adoption shouldn't mean the end of a women financial responsibility either.

So in Einna's world if the man doesn't want the pregnancy he gets to walk away and if he does want the child he gets to force the woman to gestate to term. Either way he gets the choice and the woman has to suffer the consequences.

Einna88 Sorry but that view is utterly anti-woman and frankly bonkers. If I have sex using contraception, it's because I don't want children. Fair enough, a man is in the same position there.

Where we diverge is that in applying to court to get me to carry to term, I incur all the risks of pregnancy. Death in childbirth is rare, but it happens. Things like severe SPD, hyperemesis, gestational diabetes, pre-eclampsia most assuredly do happen and can have long term impacts.

Then let's add the basics. It can knock the shit out of your body. If you're very lucky you may get back to pre-childbirth shape. If you're very unlucky (like a friend of mine with very much wanted children) you'll have a tummy overhang worthy of an NHS Op, have lost a few teeth, have had a serious tear and not be able to run or get on a trampoline for the rest of your life unless you get surgery to sort continence issues. You cannot seriously suggest that at the point where abortion is a couple of tablets, with minimal risk, a woman should be pushed to carry to term with all the risks that entails.

Or what Ubercorn said much more succinctly than me.

"I don't want to pay as my ex can't prove it goes on the child/always gets her nails done etc etc etc" no you're just a feckless fucking tosspot.

Argh, yes! My ex contributed £10 a week for our DS, and had cats-bum face whenever I got my hair trimmed. As if keeping DS in food clothes and electricity only cost a fiver a week and I was hoarding the rest to get a haircut twice a year!