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Original poster

If he doesn't want a baby, you shouldn't seek CSA

879 replies

NeedACleverNN · 02/08/2016 19:33

Why the hell is this line still trotted out?

I've even seen it on here. Woman falls pregnant, boyfriend doesn't want it and wants an abortion. She doesn't. People advise her to keep the baby and let him go. Don't bother seeking child maintenance because he didn't want the baby in the first place.

No!! If he didn't want a baby he should take his own precautions to preventing pregnancy. You don't like condoms? You don't have sex!

OP posts:
TwatbadgingCuntfuckery · 02/08/2016 20:15

I've seen on fathers for justice type pages

'no name on the birth certificate no CSA'

even though a woman cannot legally, unless married to him, put a mans name on the birth certificate. The father must be present of fill in a form if he cannot be present.

KickAssAngel · 02/08/2016 20:17

I think there should be a watertight law which means ANY consenting adult is automatically 50% responsible for a child for the next 18 years. Anyone not living up to that can have their wages taken at source, house & goods sold, put in prison etc until they have paid off their debt.

Only lack of consent would be a reason not to support the child.

Support can be the physical care, money, or a mixture, but any adult who has sex and produces a baby has to support that person. The adult gets to have a choice up until their physical contribution towards creating the baby is over (for men, once they come, for women, up until birth).

The only problem I see if with adoptions, but I think the numbers for babies being put up for adoption are incredibly low.

mathsmum314 · 02/08/2016 20:17

I think it's fairly obvious that the woman has to go through pregnancy and childbirth.

I think women need to open their eyes. Men will be having babies in out lifetime. Will they feel the same when its them being forced to pay CSA?

mathsmum314 · 02/08/2016 20:17

in our

StealthPolarBear · 02/08/2016 20:18

Canada if you have sex it can lead to pregnancy.
If a man chooses to have sex he might end up being a dad. If he doesn't want to then he should do everything he can to minimise the risks (including sleeping with someone who is on the same page as him about contraception and aborion).
If against all those odds a child occurs then it's not 100% fair. Sadly, that's life.
women suffer a hell of a lot more from having children but no one seems to wine about the unfairness on them (except, notably, the chief medical officer a little while back, which was good to see)

RichardBucket · 02/08/2016 20:18

Men will be having babies in out lifetime.

What?

Will they feel the same when its them being forced to pay CSA?

Yes, I would feel exactly the same. Except I would never be "forced" because I would willingly provide for MY child.

toptoe · 02/08/2016 20:18

Ah I see KickAss. Temporarily the child is surrendered by both parents then immediately adopted by birth parent and step parent. I can't imagine what goes through someone's mind who does that (gives up responsibility of child permanently) but at least they do admit they have no responsibility.

I think it needs to be about the rights of the child at the centre. What is best for them? What are their rights? It's not their fault one of their parents is neglectful by not providing food, shelter and clothing. Maybe the law should be about levels of care for children and go from that angle.

TwatbadgingCuntfuckery · 02/08/2016 20:19

Sperm donation - the donor has no legal responsibility to pay for any baby that is born from the donation nor does he have any legal claim to the child. That is assuming it goes through official channels.

Unofficial I think a contract of sorts would need to be drawn up to protect both parties. The donor from later CSA claims and the mother from any parental rights claims.

OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 02/08/2016 20:19

Men will be having babies in out lifetime.

Wait, what now? Hmm

Just5minswithDacre · 02/08/2016 20:20

Will they feel the same when its them being forced to pay CSA?

You think that WOMEN are somehow going to be accidentally inseminated MEN, in our lifetime? Hmm

With what substance will we be inseminating them exactly? Confused

MrsTerryPratchett · 02/08/2016 20:21

Equality is everyone has autonomy over their own body. Now, by dint of our biology, that means that men get to choose what consenting person they come in and women get to choose if they do so. Women, because we bear children, get to choose what to do if a fetus results.

You can't force, expect, financially coerce or order a women to either abort or carry a child to term. You really can't.

In which case logically, women have two chances to chose and men get one.

CanadaMoose · 02/08/2016 20:21

The issue is that even if the father pays child support when he's made it clear he does not want the child, he would not have equal rights as the mother. If he's paying, he should have the child 50% of the time. He should be entitled to 50% of holidays. And frankly, he shouldn't have to pay if he's got that, as the mother isn't paying him.

The father does not have equal rights, that's why I think he should be able to opt out when the mother refuses an abortion.

KickAssAngel · 02/08/2016 20:22

OK - in England & Wales 0.7% of live births led to baby going for adoption.

That's a tiny amount, who could easily be allowed for. Otherwise both parents are responsible for the child.

Just5minswithDacre · 02/08/2016 20:22

What substance will we be inseminating them WITH exactly?

RichardBucket · 02/08/2016 20:23

Canada Men don't have to pay if they have 50/50 contact. Strangely, many of them are happy to have less contact... but don't want to pay for the child's upkeep.

eyebrowsonfleek · 02/08/2016 20:23

The problem with 50/50 is that you can't force a reluctant parent to be a parent.

Ubercorn · 02/08/2016 20:23

maths, I'm not sure that you fully understand human biology. In order to make a baby you need an egg from a female and sperm from a male. Males don't make eggs, they have no womb to carry a fertilised egg and women produce no sperm with which to fertilise these hypothetical man-eggs.

How exactly would a woman accidentally get a man pregnant? Please do explain.

PersianCatLady · 02/08/2016 20:23

When I was 20 and my DS was born I had to go on benefits for a short while and unless you could claim that there was likely to be a threat of violence to you for doing so you had to give the name of the baby's father to the CSA so they could pursue him for maintenance.

The thing was though that if the maintenance was less than you received in benefits, the CSA passed the money onto the DSS (as was) to subsidise your benefits.

You actually only received any of the maintenance yourself if the maintenance was more than your benefits or you stopped claiming benefits and got a job or whatever.

toptoe · 02/08/2016 20:24

There are a lot of people who are very selfish in the world, man or woman, who put their needs before the child and the law absolutely has to step in when they refuse to support their child because it is neglect.

The child has a right to a certain standard of living no matter what their parents are like. We always think about the mother/fathers rights but actually it is about the rights of the child that need protecting in law.

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 02/08/2016 20:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KickAssAngel · 02/08/2016 20:27

Canada - what you wrote makes no sense. Where there is 50/50 residency then neither parent pays child support to the other. They get half each (or rather, as it is done in the child's best interests, the child gets to spend half their time with each parent). They each have equal input - it's called co-parenting. Courts approve of it. It happens.

It's when one parent does more of the caring than the other that money changes hands. It's in lieu of actually bothering to look after the kid, that a parent is expected to pay enough money for them to have food, clothing and a house.

That's what child support is for.

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 02/08/2016 20:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsTerryPratchett · 02/08/2016 20:28

The father does not have equal rights, that's why I think he should be able to opt out when the mother refuses an abortion. Firstly, children have rights, parents have responsibilities. Secondly, does your system extend to every pregnancy? If I get pregnant now, with my second child after years of marriage, does DH get to say, "nah, have an abortion"? Or is it just casual sex?

KickAssAngel · 02/08/2016 20:29

Need a Scarf - I just checked. 0.7% of births in England and Wales lead to adoption. We're talking about such a small amount that it isn't really relevant to the broader discussion.

toptoe · 02/08/2016 20:31

Why would the father not making sure he is using adequate protection mean his child should be terminated or grow up without his financial support? Also, how does a man prove that when he ejaculated he was sure there would be no pregnancy? Because he can't prove that as no protection is 100% effective. He'd not have a leg to stand on in court. Everyone knows that having sex always risks a child, despite condoms/pills/coils/any wives tales about periods etc. Just because he doesn't want the child doesn't negate the fact he ejaculated in a woman and his sperm had a chance of meeting the woman's egg and creating a life.