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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIB an U-ly bad parent?

114 replies

deliverdaniel · 29/07/2016 20:21

How well behaved are 'normal' children? I just can't work out if my kids are normal for their age, or if their behaviour is unusually bad and I am a shockingly bad mother and it's really starting to get me down.

We have two boys, aged 5 and 2 (nearly 6 and 3) and our lives regularly dissolve into complete chaos. The two year old is a real handful, I think probably on the extreme end of normal. He runs away from us as fast as he can go- often towards danger- eg the road (finds it hysterical) with me sprinting to catch up. If I turn my back for a few seconds at home he is unrolling the loo roll/ spraying water everywhere/ taking all the books off the bookshelves/ destroying his older brother's beloved lego creation etc etc . He is usually sweet with other kids and can share nicely and take turns in the right mood but in the wrong mood will push and shove other kids or sometimes hit. He goes into this wild mood several times each day.

My five year old is not as physical and can be very sweet but he has HUGE tantrums about things pretty regularly- eg refuses to put his shoes on in the morning and has a massive angry tantrum, snarling at everyone etc/ usually two or three big strops every morning before school about something like getting dressed/ putting his breakfast stuff in the dishwasher etc. He will be so rude and tell us to 'go away' etc. It often happens when the little one starts running wild. Then he starts running wild too (egged on by his little brother) and they both start running around the house yelling madly and throwing cushions on the floor etc (not breaking anything major- just causing chaos.) Neither of them will calm down when I tell them to, or apparently listen to me at all and I feel as though I've totally lost control.

My mum obviously thinks that they are the worst behaved children ever. I am so embarrassed when she visits about their behaviour. I don't know what to do. I praise good behaviour/ set limits/ enforce consequences (usually time outs) / give them lots of attention/ limit treats/ sugar etc. They sleep and eat well get exercise and have a good routine. Is this normal kid behaviour or am I doing a terrible job? Please be kind- I really am trying my best and sometimes when I read things where people talk about 'terrible parents- should get their kids under control' etc etc, I just feel devastated and so ashamed and don't know what to do.

Any thoughts/ advice?

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deliverdaniel · 30/07/2016 20:09

*puglife thanks that' looks really helpful. Sometimes I find its v hard in the moment to theink of the right consequence or reaction under pressure so helpful to have some suggestions ready to go!

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mathanxiety · 30/07/2016 21:57

Natural consequences - you have to be prepared for your DS to look odd or to see your child standing at the counter to eat instead of joining the family at the kitchen table. It's no more humiliating than sending a child to school in normal clothes when it's supposed to be some sort of dress up day. If he comes home upset that others poked fun at him you can ask him if he plans to dress for school tomorrow or leave the house in his Spiderman pajamas again. Remind him that it is up to him to choose and suggest that he might have a nicer day in school or more fun in the park, etc., if he had appropriate clothes. But don't be afraid of letting your child experience hurt feelings or embarrassment or angry feelings towards you. Your children love you underneath it all, even when you are mad with them and you let them know that. Don't be afraid to lay down the law. It is really important that they know you are not afraid of their feelings.

Don't be fussy about small details. There is more than one way to skin a cat - let DS1 decide what way he wants to follow directions. Your detailed approval is a natural consequence of him making solid, co-operative decisions. You can commend the speed with which he got dressed and enabled you all to be on time instead of pointing out that his t-shirt is back to front or he has buttoned up Mondays and Tuesdays, or forgotten to zip his fly.. Find something to compliment when a DS complies with a direction. He might not have done it your way but he has done it and that's what matters.

If you're in a non-school uniform school the method of letting him choose his clothes the night before and laying them out might be possible - that way he has already bought the concept of dressing and he feels some control over the activity because he chose the clothes. He could choose where to lay them all out too, and choose where to have his footwear ready. With a uniform, all he could really choose is where to have it all ready.

I agree with Emmaroos' and BlueLeopard's comment about the importance of leaving supermarkets, swimming pools, parks, playgrounds - everywhere, in fact, when someone bolts or tantrums. I don't agree with a bribe though, for reasons in my other post. Your praise, maybe a high five and hugs afterwards are the rewards. This teaches them to work for your direct approval and to try to avoid your disapproval.

It is really helpful for many children to have a little 'pep talk' in the car when you arrive at your destination, after you park and before you get out. You describe the behaviour you want to see: be specific about quiet indoor voices and what being helpful looks like. You tell them it is important that you are able to shop without interruptions so that the family buys everything you all need for meals and supplies for the coming week. You warn that specific transgressions will result in leaving. You can include bolting, refusal to hold the shopping cart, opening the reins and climbing out of the baby seat, whining about items they want you to buy that are not on the list, tantrums at the checkout. Ask if you have a deal about the sort of behaviour you expect. Shake hands or do some high fives. Then if any rule breaking happens, you leave. Abandon your cart. Go home. This takes a bit of planning but the message is important so it's worth it.

Do the same for the park/library/pool - describe taking turns, staying in the area, handling books carefully, walking, and list behaviour that will result in immediately leaving: any rough behaviour towards other children, bolting, shouting and rudeness. Don't be afraid of upsetting the child and don't take the 'worst mom in the world and I hate you' business seriously.

Never give in to tantrums or whining even if the child is right, or if what they want seems reasonable/is affordable/is doable. Just stand on principle and do not give in. Don't apologise for not giving in. Tell them you are doing this and also that you are open to civil requests and discussion.

If someone is rude or shouty or bad tempered when asking you a question or requesting something, never answer the question or address the topic they are shouting about. State that you will not have discussions with people who are being rude/loud/mean/bad tempered. Keep on repeating that. Ask them if they want to take a break and return when they are able to be civil.

Nobody interrupts you when you are on the phone. The rule I had was that I only took interruptions if the house was on fire or there was a disaster involving poop or bleeding.

(Starryillusion, your reference to suncream reminds me we still call it sunscream here thanks to DD3. We also have a family joke involving the shouting of 'NO HAT!!!')

dangermouseisace · 30/07/2016 22:35

I have, in the past, explained DS2 issues with dressing in the morning with his teacher and agreed that it would be acceptable to bring him in in jammies with school clothes in a bag, and he'd get dressed at school. DS2 was informed of this, with the teacher present.

Guess what? It never had to happen, although once I was already at the door with his clothes in a carrier bag.

Once you get boundaries in place and kids know you mean business and that you WILL follow through they dont spend quite so much time trying it on. Make it clear they are making a choice- that THEY are the ones in control- e.g you can choose to go to school in just your pants, or you can go fully dressed. It's up to you to decide. I found it really hard to start with, and have felt really mean sticking to some of my decisions but my kids are pretty well behaved most of the time. They do still need those firm boundaries though, and rewards also need to be followed through to be effective.

deliverdaniel · 30/07/2016 22:38

thanks so much for all this advice. Problem is, he is usually running around naked in the morning (takes his pyjamas off when he wakes up) so I can't really send him to school like that! (or at least I know that I am unwilling to.)

The other issue is the 'leaving' the place you are at. That is more often than not an incentive to DS1, rather than a punishment. He hates shopping for and generally his most favourite thing is to go home and play lego, so always happy to do that even if we are in a 'fun' place like the park etc. So to tell him- "if you play up then we will leave" would almost certainly make him play up immediately. the issue with him is getting him out of the house and away from his lego rather than the opposite!

But the general principles of what you have said re consistency/ not giving in/ not engaging when he's like that are v good ones. t hank you

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mathanxiety · 30/07/2016 22:39
  • and you can give quiet and not overboard praise as you progress around the supermarket or as a child plays nicely with other children. This accomplishes two objectives - it is a subtle reminder of the rules for your child, a reminder that you are watching, and he feels good about how he's doing, which might keep his mood up.
deliverdaniel · 30/07/2016 22:40

dangermouseisace I can see teh going to school in pyjamas thing, but just in his pants?? Really? would you genuinely follow through on that? I couldn't... which makes me think that I shouldn't threaten it in the first place...

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QuackDuckQuack · 30/07/2016 22:45

How do they behave at school/nursery (if they go)? Mostly DC behave better in those situations and I find that it helps to give me a sense of what I could expect from my DD if I had the right strategies. I don't expect her to behave quite as well at home - she uses up her 'good behaviour energy' at school somewhat. But I can sometimes have too low expectations of my DD (not just in behaviour, but generally I'm a bit surprised by what she can do), so I rely on experts to help me calibrate my expectations.

deliverdaniel · 30/07/2016 22:48

QuackDuckQuack Good question. They both behave well at school/ preschool (the little one has occasional lapses but generally good, the older one is one of hte best behaved kids in the class.

Last year he had a terrible year at school though- for various reasons - not just him- the teacher/ school had HUGE problems and the class was pretty terrifyingly chaotic for most of the year, which I know affected him a lot. His behaviour has improved a bit since school finished in June but has recently (last week or so) slipped back into the old ways. He is going to camp over the summer and still ahs to get ready/ out of the house etc, which he hates, but generally he really loves camp.

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mathanxiety · 30/07/2016 22:58

Then you need to turn it around - you can say, 'When I get our shopping done without interruption we can get home quickly and you can play with Lego. If I have to stop shopping to address interruptions then we won't be home quickly. So please choose now if we are going to get it done quickly or slowly.' You can also give him praise as he co-operates in the supermarket 'Wow, look how fast this is going, DS. We should be all done in another twenty minutes. Thank you,' and thank him again when you're leaving for his co-operation and making a good choice. (I posted my addition to the previous post after a tea break before refreshing my page...)

At 5-nearly-6, he's a little old to be peeling off his pajamas and running around naked. Children beyond potty training age generally feel a desire for privacy and avoid nakedness. Has that been considered really funny at any point in your family? Has it ever been a game? You could ask him if he wants to go to school like that and tell him he will at least have to wear boxers. The clock visual, the kitchen timer (get one that dings loudly) and a clock in his room should remind him that time marches on. Or you could incorporate the running around into the normal morning schedule, allocate 15 minutes to nakedness, give him a 2 minute warning when it's almost up, and then move on to the next phase of the routine. Maybe keep a pair of underoos and shorts and t-shirt in the car so he can dress there if you have to leave the house with him naked.

Does he have some sensory issues? How obsessed is he with the Lego? Do you have a school psychiatrist who could assess him for mild sensory or obsessive issues? Even if he's in a private school he is most likely still entitled to local District diagnostic and therapy referral and services.

pollyblack · 30/07/2016 22:58

Mine are like this and they are 10 and 6- they seem completely feral at times. Best thing for us is being outdoors and active a lot or they just wrestle and fight. School holidays are challenging as its a big day to fill and they wind each other up. Lots of trips to the park, swimming, outdoor trips and fresh air!

mathanxiety · 30/07/2016 23:10

If you baulk at sending him to school just in underpants, then have him sleep in something like basketball shorts, which are clothes but comfortable for sleep. But I think you need to warn the teacher that he may arrive undressed and have a set to change into, and let him know this so he knows you are prepared to stick to your guns. (I agree with Dangermouse here).

deliverdaniel · 30/07/2016 23:11

mathanxiety thanks for this. I like the idea re supermarket.

Re nakedness - no I don't think we've considered it really funny, but we haven't done anything to prevent it either. A lot of his friends are like this too (we live abroad, in a hot place.) I don't have a problem with his being naked at home per se- and don't want it to come off as something shameful- although I do make him put on clothes if anyone is coming over/ for dinner etc.

I don't know about sensory issues- nothing obvious comes to mind. Though I must admit I don't know much about this and what we should be looking for in particular. He is pretty obsessed with lego, that's for sure! (but I'm not sure he needs to be assessed by a psychiatrist just for that??) If you are wondering about autism then I don't think it's that- he is reasonably social and very empathetic.

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deliverdaniel · 30/07/2016 23:13

I'm not going to send him to school in just his pants (or even some version of pants like boxers/ shorts.) I know others may think differently on this, but for me, it's too humiliating and out of proportion to the offence. That is the kind of thing you would honestly remember for the rest of your life, and I don't want to do that to DS even if he is a pain in the neck about getting dressed in the morning.

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hownottofuckup · 30/07/2016 23:19

I say when she's in her pants that in 10 mins we are leaving so if she's not dressed she'll go as she is and she's never tested it tbh, as I don't make 'threats' that I don't follow through generally so I suppose she has no reason not to believe me. I don't do it angrily, I'm quite calm and matter of fact about it. I guess she just doesn't want to go in her pants. If she wasn't dressed I would take her as she was, but we go in the car so I could take the other bits of clothing with me and I imagine she'd put them on in the car when we got there.
Her little sister did refuse to get dressed once, so I took her on the school run in her nappy. Was awful, there was snow on the ground, I was sure I looked like the worst parent ever. But I wasn't having one made late because the other was arsing about and I did take a blanket. And a snow suit was in the boot on the off chance we ever broke down anyway.
Neithers done it since.

puglife15 · 30/07/2016 23:19

Some great advice from Math

I too do the pep talk. Took my boisterous 3 year old into an antiques shop with china and crystal everywhere. Told him before we went in "now there's lots of breakables so you can look but I don't want you to touch". We were in the shop for some time and he was brilliant. He likes knowing what's expected of him.

There's no way I'd send my DC to nursery or school half dressed tbh. We implemented a new rule that we get dressed before we go downstairs every single morning to help avoid a similar situation. It's clear and easy to follow, we apply it to ourselves too so it's a family rule not just for him.

Maybe in the morning he could get more time to play with his Lego if he gets dressed quickly? Keep Lego downstairs?

The other thing is you can do the whole "it looks like you're struggling to get yourself dressed today. I'll help you." And you literally help put their clothes on. in my experience they usually get themselves dressed before you have the chance!

mathanxiety · 30/07/2016 23:22

I live in a place where summers are very hot too but I don't see it happening all that much, especially where children are going into first grade.

Not autism, but more impulse control and as far as sensory issues go, having skin crawling or needing to avoid certain sensations like the feel of clothing on his skin.

I think you should make being clothed more of a normal thing at home. There are health and safety issues involved with nakedness - exposure to bacteria on chairs and sofas, exposure to pinworms, possibility of skin being scratched, especially genitalia. If getting dressed was a daily habit and not just something to do when people are coming over he might not be so bothered by the prospect of dressing for school.

It seems to me that getting dressed is a basic element of a structured environment, and it might benefit DS if it became a daily expectation, with all the choice elements included so that he would feel empowered as he complied with the expectation.

hownottofuckup · 30/07/2016 23:23

No don't actually send him in his pants!! God that would be awful. But presumably he doesn't want to go in his pants? So he needs to take a bit of responsibility for that. Getting yourself appropriately dressed is a pretty basic skill.
Does he general not believe in your sanctions? Because if that's the case then that's the real problem. Then it's best to start small and follow it through, then he'll know you mean it and not to question you over the bigger stuff.

deliverdaniel · 30/07/2016 23:24

We live in a one story house so no upstairs/ downstairs, but we could def put the lego away and he can 'earn' playing with it once he is dressed. We actually used to do that during the school term but have lapsed a bit with summer holidays/ camp as much laxer schedule. but yes, should def reinstate it.

The pep talk thing is also a really good idea- I do do that a lot before we go places/ meet people etc and it does tend to work pretty well. Maybe I shoudl try and work out a way to do that at home, but slihgtly trickier

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puglife15 · 30/07/2016 23:24

Xpost, I completely agree op that it could be humiliating and shaming for a 6 year old boy to go to school in his pants. I'd rather be late and ask him to explain to teacher why as the natural consequence.

I also think if a child is young enough to wear a nappy it's expecting too much of them to dress themselves consistently.

But horses for courses!

deliverdaniel · 30/07/2016 23:24

the hardest thigns are definitely the transitions- get dressed/ come to dinner/ get in the bath etc, especially when he is mid lego

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Daisygarden · 30/07/2016 23:26

Not read all thread... but a few suggestions:

  1. Separate them. When the bad behaviour starts and they are egging each other on, send the eldest to a different room - no arguments - no discussion. (I say the eldest as you would obviously need to keep the 2yo close to you).

I watched the Three Day Nanny and she dealt with a tantrumming/screaming 2 (or 1.5yo) by saying "You can scream but you sit on the bottom step to do it". That seemed to work too.

  1. Do they drink much juice, even no added sugar juice or pure fruit juice? If so, just don't buy it and say it's water or milk. They will get used to the change in around 3 days of moaning.

  2. Make sure they each get some undivided attention from you (easier said than done some days!) Some behaviours are attention-seeking, boredom or jealousy based.

  3. Some kids are just like this to a degree, you just have to learn ways of dealing with them. Have a look at empoweringparents.com website, I learned a few good things from there.

Hope some of this helps!

hownottofuckup · 30/07/2016 23:29

I'm the opposite from Math, they have to be appropriately dressed for school but at home they can wear what they like (often pants or not a stitch on) and if we're going out of a weekend they can wear what they like (must be clothed, I have wellies/coats/jumpers in the car just in case) as school is so strict it's their bit of pay off.
None of them have sensory issues though, they just like being a bit bare on their down time.

deliverdaniel · 30/07/2016 23:30

mathanxiety yes sorry- I think I have probably overstated the nakedness thing. He's not always naked at home- mainly in the mornings- he often takes off his pyjamas then gets distracted and starts playing, and after his bath he likes to be naked for a bit rather than get straight into PJs. I'm not worried about the health and safety aspect tbh but I take your point about a structured environment. As for the sensory issue- I'm not sure- its doesn't ring a massive bell. He does tend to prefer softer clothes (sweatpants as opposed to jeans/ t-shirts rather than shirts) but so do most of his friends too. He will wear the others if he has to and doesn'et seem to be massively bothered by them- more just finds them more annoying to put on and take off. He's about to start kindergarten not first grade (sept birthday) - if that makes any difference!

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puglife15 · 30/07/2016 23:30

Pep talk - just lay out your expectations for the day.

"Right we are going to build a ship out of lego today, we are going to have so much fun! To make sure we all enjoy it, I need you to do x, y and z" Or "before we start, I need your help with something first/need you to dress yourself" etc.

deliverdaniel · 30/07/2016 23:31

hownottofuckup that's pretty much my take on it too I guess (although never really articulated it that clearly)

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