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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be annoyed with our nanny?

115 replies

lilythemonkey · 26/07/2016 19:05

Our part time nanny took my disabled 4 year old and 1 year old to Chessington today. I said she could use our annual pass to take the children there anytime she wanted and last week she told me her 24 year old son was going to go with her to help her, to which I replied, "That's nice of him". She came back with a bill of £47.50 for his ticket! If she had asked me in advance I would have told her not to take them if me paying for his ticket was the deal, the annual pass was only a few quid more than his ticket and was a birthday present from my mum. I feel there isn't much I can do now it's done, other than not let her take them there again :(

OP posts:
Pisssssedofff · 26/07/2016 21:42

Good nannies are like gold dust. I'd pay but clarify going forward that you expect her to cope alone and just use the zoo

EverySongbirdSays · 26/07/2016 21:44

I think that a misunderstanding has been engineered into forcing/embarrassing you to pay for his ticket, you can't very well not. I wouldn't have a neighbour on DP. AWFUL if you should need to end the working relationship if it stops working down the line and that's how miscommunications like this happen :

She says : I will bring son

You assume : that's your choice and you're covering that cost

She assumes : I'm working for you, my son is helping, you'll pay

This will happen AGAIN and AGAIN if not nipped in the bud.

You can't hope to keep things professional if they are too close.

Slight derailment but I noticed again the assumption on this thread that disabled people and their families get endless freebies and are entitled to large and infinite sums and this assumption is so incorrect and just makes me seethe

Original poster
lilythemonkey · 26/07/2016 21:52

Argh, I've just discovered that Chessington offer a '2nd Carer ticket' for just £23.50 with a full carers ticket. If I'd known I would've suggested that - whoever ended up paying.

OP posts:
Trojanhorsebox · 26/07/2016 21:52

well if you want to keep her, and if she's good and was hard to find, I assume you do, you're going to end up paying....as others say, make it clear it was a one off and in future extra expenses above X amount need to be discussed and agreed in advance or she won't be reimbursed.

We had a lovely childminder years ago who did before and after school care and also all day in school holidays. She liked to be out and about with the kids in summer rather than stuck at home - parks, picnics etc - any expensive trips she wanted reimbursed for she always gave the parents notice and got agreement for ahead of time, never any surprise extra bills.

Karoleann · 26/07/2016 22:14

I still don't see how she can be self-employed if she just works for you. This is what the government website says about having a direct payments carer:

"If you use your direct payments to employ a carer, you’ll immediately take on certain responsibilities as an employer. That means you’ll have to think about tax, national minimum wage, sickness and holiday pay, pension, and liability insurance. Whether you employ someone for a few hours a week or full time, the same rules apply. If that sounds a bit daunting, there are people and organisations that can help."

Its unlikely that your direct payments manager is qualified in tax accounting and in fact this is what the oxfordshire CC website says about a self-employed personal assistant.

"It is your responsibility to make sure your personal assistant’s employment status is correct and you should think carefully before treating them as self-employed.
The council cannot accept liability in the event of penalties or fines being imposed by HMRC. You can find out more about determining whether or not your personal assistant’s employment status is correct by visiting www.gov.uk and entering 'employment status' in the search field or phoning 0300 200 3300."

I would call up HMRC and ask them as it is VERY unlikely your nanny/personal assistant can be self-employed.

greenfolder · 26/07/2016 22:23

I think you should pay this time and learn your lesson. You describe a good relationship with a woman who sounds like she was hard to find and would be hard to replace.

maddening · 26/07/2016 22:32

Was there much for either of the dc at the theme park or have you essentially paid for the som to go on all the rides while she wanders round with the buggy? If there isn"t much for them then say you'll pay but as there is not much suitable then you"d prefer her to stick to the zoo

Original poster
lilythemonkey · 26/07/2016 22:36

I think they had a nice time in the zoo bit and on the rides - she's good with them. I just can't afford it that's all.

Many thanks for all the advice everyone, I'll pay this time but will make sure it doesn't happen again. Night x

OP posts:
wizzywig · 26/07/2016 22:42

Id have assumed if she said her son was going to help her with your kids that you would be paying

Snazarooney · 26/07/2016 22:46

Could you contact Chessington and explain that your nanny made a mistake and didn't realise she could purchase a second carers ticket? They might reimburse you for the difference as a goodwill gesture..?

leghoul · 26/07/2016 22:48

I can't quite work out why Chessington was a good idea in the first place. I think you do need more than one pair of hands with 2 very young children somewhere like that. I think YABU a bit. I'd pay it this once but not again. She may think she checked with you first.

SouthWindsWesterly · 26/07/2016 22:52

She's good with your children and it took a long time to find her? Then offer her the £23 as the 2nd carer price. And inform her that if she needed a second carer then she should have made that clear from the onset.

Audreyhelp · 26/07/2016 23:01

Well I think your children had a better day with her son going as yours could do rides and not just the zoo.
However she should have asked first and give you the option.

Italiangreyhound · 26/07/2016 23:17

Is this a reverse?

Either way. I think the mum should pay the full amount for the ticket. What benefit could it be for a young person to go around a fun place with his mum and two very small kids she is looking after! He has only gone to help her, perhaps because she felt she could not cope with two children alone at a fun place like this. I'd certainly not want to take them or even my own two kids on my own!

I think it is a misunderstanding and the mum should have checked when the adult son attending was first mentioned. Something like 'It's nice of him to offer to come, along and help, I'm sorry I can't afford his ticket too."

I also think the nanny should have checked that you would pay, she was in the wrong but for the sake of a good relationship, if she is good with your son and also lives so close, I'd pay the money but just say something like, "I wasn't expecting to have to pay for your son. Next time you take the children anywhere can you let me know what expenses there will be before hand so I can check, please?"

Offering her half is rather a fudge, IMHO. I really can't imagine the fun day out was much fund for an adult whose not the children's parent or nanny.

NeedAnotherGlass · 26/07/2016 23:24

Carers can definitely be self-employed. I have used a few over the years funded by my direct payments. One of my current carers works for several families. She works for me on an adhoc basis. It makes sense for her to be self-employed.
Some do have to be employed though.

Klaptout · 26/07/2016 23:29

It sounds like it could have been a mix up in that she asked about bringing her son, then as you agreed she took that to mean that you would pay.
Or she's taking the piss.
If she was just going to the zoo then she could have done that herself.
Had you have known that she was planning going to the rides it would be reasonable to expect two carers were needed.
I'd be a bit concerned about the self employed status, it's not an easy thing to sort and if she's just doing hours for your family it seems unlikely.
We have a team of 4 DP staff, have had many over the years, none of them were self employed. What happens regarding contract insurance, holidays maternity and sick pay?
None of our staff send invoices, we use a payroll service, I submit the hours each have worked, payroll email the payslips. I pay staff out of each of my children's DP accounts.
For me it would be easier if they were self employed, no one wants to do it that way as too difficult.

I would be clear that your agreeing to her son going didn't mean you were expecting to pay for him.
It's difficult with trips out because if you are expecting a carer to take your children out for the day then you also have to meet the costs for eating out for carer as well as fuel.
didn she ask you to cover the cost of her and her sons food and drink?

MotherFuckingChainsaw · 26/07/2016 23:33

Refund her the cost of the £23 carers ticket.

Most places I've worked ( not a carer, but a pretty 'expense heavy' job) would reimburse the cheapest reasonable ticket price for something, and if you paid over and above that because you didn't check that was your problem.

MotherFuckingChainsaw · 26/07/2016 23:35

And in future make it clear that you REALLY can't afford to be hit with unexpected expenses like that and all extras must be agreed in advance.

Be businesslike

AndNowItsSeven · 26/07/2016 23:42

Why are people assuming the op uses direct payments ?

AndNowItsSeven · 26/07/2016 23:45

Sorry missed the direct payments post.

Blondeshavemorefun · 26/07/2016 23:45

If she is your nanny and does regular hours with you ie picking up from
Nursery and caring for your toddler then she should be self employed

You will be the one who gets a fine for tax evasion and possibly prison sentences and have to pay back any tax

If she is truely self employed then she should put it down as an exspense on her tax form

She can't have it both ways. She is either self employed or employed

I've been a nanny /maternity night nanny for 25yrs and I think she is cheeky !!!

You are both to blame - she should have said will you pay and you should have asked who was paying for her son

You use her services and no need to 'pay' for another adult so I feel she should pay and you shouldn't

Hindsight is. Wonderful thing - alwaya discuss financial things beforehand

Blondeshavemorefun · 26/07/2016 23:47

Ffs. First sentence should be she should be employed. Not self employed

pillowaddict · 26/07/2016 23:54

Having worked in a similar role in the past I'd never have expected to meet the expenses of someone who came along to make my job easier. For the pp who suggested it couldn't have been any fun for the son - actually a couple of my friends loved coming along to things that they could enjoy in a child like way while I was providing respite for several children with asd (with their parents permission of course) and found it a great excuse to go to the zoo, cinema etc. I would never in a million years have charged the mum for that. If there was ever a situation where I felt I needed extra support I'd have asked/told and expected a second carer to be paid for, not a tag along of my choosing to have their expenses sorted.

I really think you need to say to her: "I'm sorry that you didn't ask upfront - I can't afford the expenses of your son's ticket. I wasn't aware that he was coming in that capacity. In the future you really will need to let me know what expenses you expect to meet on outings so that I can agree them before you pay. On this occasion I will agree to pay the amount a second carer's ticket would have been, I'm sorry that you weren't aware of that on the day."
I know that she might be great with the dc and handy all round but you really need to stop situations like this happening in the future to avoid awkwardness further down the line.

coconutpie · 26/07/2016 23:58

DO NOT PAY FOR HIS TICKET.

She is being SO unreasonable by invoicing you for her son's ticket when you didn't agree to pay. Do not pay it.

bumsexatthebingo · 27/07/2016 00:07

I would be honest with the nanny and tell her that you thought the son was going to keep her company not to help with the children. I would pay this time (or see if she will accept half/installments) but make it clear that you need to be told before hand in future about any such unusual expenses.