To think this 'nut free policy' is OTT for a school

[MerryMarigold]

So, letter home about next term's 'nut free' policy and I think it's a bit extreme but tell me what you think. In packed lunches (I will have 3 having packed lunch next year), we are not allowed to include:

• Fruit and cereal bars which contain nuts
• Sesame seed rolls
• Nutella
• Peanut butter
• Cakes made with nuts
• Muesli bars
• Baklava/ Nougat/ Turkish Delight
• Any packets of nuts

I would assume we are not allowed to give them pistachios in a Tupperware box either.

Anyway, my point is that how can they police it this closely? I know some kids cannot come into ANY contact with nuts, but for example, my kids would have nuts in granola at breakfast and probably not always wash their hands before school (if they remembered to clean their teeth when they first get up). I also refuse to check the ingredient list of everything I put into a packed lunch for 3 children so there are bound to be nuts in something they end up having.

Nuts are very healthy and nutritious, so we basically need to swap nut based products for something less healthy. I am most upset about the Muesli bars and no cakes made with nuts. Ds1 is a major food-refuser. He has never managed school dinners and food at home is an issue too. He nearly always has a muesli bar in his lunch, which I suppose I will need to substitute with biscuits. And sometimes I would include cakes made with nuts just to up his nutrition at lunchtime a bit. He doesn't like any form of meat, fish or cheese in his sandwiches.

I do sympathise that there are (a very few) people who have a 'life threatening reaction to nut products' (quoted on the 'nut free policy' letter). However, I would assume they do carry an epi-pen as it is impossible to create a completely nut free environment in a large school of children who are eating nuts at least at home. So, in reality it is not life threatening unless there is a child who has an unknown severe nut allergy. I would even be compassionate if it was stated that a child (without mentioning names) had had a reaction several times in school, but I very much doubt a child has reacted at school, and there may not even be a child with a severe nut allergy, so this is just scare mongering really.

SO, I do need to feel more positive about this and the extra work it will cause me, the extra moaning from my child and the reduction in nutrition. Please tell me off gently! I've had a bad night with not much sleep though, so please bear with me.

I think a lot of the responses that think it's OTT don't realise how quickly a potentially fatal allergic reaction can occur even to particles of nuts in the room. Allergies develop and can become worse and you don't know it's happened until it does. A child with a severe nut allergy does not need to eat or even touch the nut to breathe in the particles.

I once had a friend's 3 year-old son round to play with my 3 year-old dd. I had been told that he might have an allergy to peanuts, but not to nuts. This was long before manufacturers had cottoned on and put disclaimers on the packet like 'there may be xxx in the place these were processed'. Long enough never to have heard of anyone else with either a nut or peanut allergy. I'd made a cake with some chopped nuts, carefully checking that there were no peanuts. That's when we discovered that he'd developed an allergy to nuts as he ended up in hospital, and there was a very frightening day or two before we knew he was going to be all right.

By the way merry marigold, thank you for saying your thoughts outloud. Many only huff and puff. It's only though saying you don't understand that those of us who do can get to describe and explain. I've been tested for many many food allergies since discovering my sllergy to Brazil nuts, yet despite assuring my fil that shell food makes me sick he still thinks I'm being fussy. Whilst no allergy has ever shown up, all I know is that every time I've been exposed to shell fish despite enjoying the meal my stomach appears to dislike said items and won't to turn me into a horror movie in terms of emptying itself into whatever toilet I can get to, indeed after times when having had fish in a sauce that have resulted in said endings, if I then phone up the restaurant to find out the contents of the sauce, invariably it's a shell fish. But whilst this is not pleasant - it's not the same realm as nuts. Though I might think so whilst my heads down the toilet! I hope you haven't read my previous post as aggressive, more that as an adult I feel it's my duty to explain how it feels so that others can understand what children who can't vocalise so we'll go through. Well done you for asking! If we don't ask, we don't learn. I don't feel anything bad towards you. Well done you for asking!!!!!

Thank you Wills for sharing your story - it is far more compelling and constructive to seek to educate than my red mist ranting up thread!

It is so very difficult as a parent of a child with a life threatening allergy, particularly when we each of us remember the sheer hell and stress of that time that our child nearly died (in my case my DD was 2.5 years old when she went into anaphylactic shock and I had a 6-day old DS), and we discovered the allergy; to give a measured response to people who, through lack of direct experience, seem to be minimising our children's safety and the threat they live under.

Your post is beautifuly written and makes it very clear what the risks are and what it's like. Having calmed down a bit from earlier, I agree fully with a pp who said that this type of thread is great, as it educates people who dont have experience, and may not fully appreciate the value of schools/restaurants being careful.

No at all unreasonable my school that children went to and I work at has this policy it has been in place over 15 years.My scariest ever day as a teacher on a boarding school was when a 17 year old collapsed due to nut allergy seriously though she would die.Imagine if it were your child you would do anything it took to avoid it.There are nut free cereal bars possibly Quaker ? Cant remember details children older now.

It's not only a nut allergy which can be caused by being near the product in question. We had someone at work in Central London that was so allergic to bananas she could have a reaction to a banana skin left in a bin near her. God knows what she did if she was on a crowded train and some random person started eating a banana. Even so I'm pretty sure she never asked the train company, or the company she worked for to implement a total banana ban. Putting it bluntly, although we were aware of it, and were careful around her, basically it was her problem and she had to deal with it and be vigilant.

But there are quite a few responses from people here who think that an outright ban is OTT who suffer from life-threatening allergies themselves.

I can tell you dramatic stories about a couple of occasions where I have suffered serious allergic reactions from eating a tiny amount of the allergen, one of which I thought my number was up, and I still do not think that a ban on all nuts in schools is the right way forward for the allergic child .

My nut allergy appears to be hereditary and there's a good chance any child of mine will inherit it. I have already thought about the approach I feel is best to take, and I do not want my child(ren) brought up in a bubble, even if it will put them slightly more at risk (just like lots of other choices parents make to allow their children to experience things that have a slight risk attached – and actually far higher death rates than anaphylaxis – but mean a fuller life experience)

My daughters' primary also has a totally nut free policy. DD2 is underweight but loves nuts so it's been annoying but we've followed the rules although she says she's not aware of any children having a nut allergy.

DD2 is about to move up to a secondary school which isn't nut free. We had to attend an interview with a teacher there, who asked DD2 what she was most looking forward to at secondary school. She replied "peanuts"!

Yes Sandbags I do think it is reasonable to expect an adult to manage themselves and also communicate about them with others as needed. And good of you to be careful with your colleague as well. A primary school with legal responsibility to keep very small children safe in the absence of their parents needs to have slightly different standards and also expectations of it's attendees ability to self-manage though, don't you think?

What would be the right way to deal with it I wonder? Allergy charities advocate against bans but what do they suggest instead? (Genuine question).

Say nuts are allowed in a school where there is a severely allergic child who doesn't even have to come into contact with nuts to go into anaphylaxis. Child on the other side of the room opens a bag of nuts, allergic child goes into anaphylaxis, worst case scenario the child dies, best case the child gets blue lighted to hospital. Either way it's traumatic for everyone involved. It could have been easily prevented if the school remained a nut free zone. Other than that the only alternative seems to be to ensure the child eats in a separate room but it doesn't seem fair to segregate them from everyone else because of something they can't help.

Not being goady/obtuse. Just trying to figure out how abolishing bans on nuts can be done safely without putting the lives of severely nut allergic children at risk or excluding them from certain situations.

When DD was in reception I put in her lunchbox a wafer tube thing filled with chocolate spread. Her and her friend swooped some food and then Her friend started throwing up as has a mild allergy to nuts and the chocolate spread had hazelnuts in.
Luckily she doesn't have as ever allergy otherwise the outcome could have been different.
Primary (especially infants ) don't always have the knowledge to know every food that may contain nuts and happily have a bite of their friends cake etc.
I would Stick to the rules - do you really want to be responsible for the death of a child?? Yes it's a slim chance but better safe than sorry.

I didn't realise it had nuts in (was from life and packaging was mostly in French I think) wasn't until school rang to ask if anything in DDs lunchbox had nuts in that I checked the back and realised. If I didn't realise as a fully grown literate adult what hope does a 4 year old??

*from lidl

A primary school with legal responsibility to keep very small children safe in the absence of their parents needs to have slightly different standards and also expectations of it's attendees ability to self-manage though, don't you think?

Of course they need some different standards and expectation; the problem with allergy management isn't that children with nut allergies need support, the two big problems are that nut allergy sufferers are cosseted to the point of not learning management skills and those with different but just as serious allergies are not helped in any significant way.

imwithspud

Having a severe allergy will almost inevitably exclude you from certain situations, it is an unpleasant but something you just have to come to terms with.

I understand your point Andro, however my view, having raised a child through this, is that since my DD (now 8, she almost died aged 2.5) I have spent time gradually and increasingly in an age-appropriate way educating her to manage her allergy herself. While they are very young, yes you can drum it into them like a mantra not to eat something until they are sure etc, but there may be times they forget, make a mistake or whatever. It takes time and maturity for them to fully manage.

The infant school/early primary years are the time when they cannot be fully responsible, and a safe environment is key. There are many things that primary school children are guided/protected from as they do not always make the right choices. A safe environment is absolutely not a reason to not bother training your child! Far, far from it, it is a breathing space while you get them to the point of self management, and they mature enough to be able to self-manage. I would note also that my understanding of the guidelines oft-quoted on this thread, which dont advise banning, do specify that up to age 8, a ban is the safest approach. This thread started about a primatry school setting.

I believe my DD now she is 8, is able to manage this herself at all times without slipping up. We still remind her though before she goes to play at a friends or will be in a situation without us and where she may be offered food that is not from home. And she has an allergy that requires her to ingest before having a reaction, I do not have experience of an allergy where mere presence is enough to set of a shock.

My daughter's best friend and a few other friends are severely nut allergic, her bf is severely allergic to a lot of everyday foods actually. The school they attended for primary (my younger 2 kids still attend) is nut free and already was when my daughter started there over 10 years ago. They are no at secondar school and it is nut AND kiwi free. As I have a very severe contact reaction to kiwi I totally understand that.
With regards to instructions being ott, when this friend was in foundation stage she had to have the epi-pen used because she was making some "junk modelling" creation and no one noticed that the cereal box she was happily creating with had formerly contained crunchy nut cornflakes.
Yes, reactions can be that severe.
I also know they were once sent pesto pasta for the salad bar for school dinners in error, (the school is small - one form entry, nursery to yr6 and doesn't have its own kitchens) and that caused quite a lot of stress.
So yes, I think YABU.

Thingvellir

I live with, and have nearly died because of, a serious food allergy - so I would appreciate it if you didn't patronise me. I know exactly how dangerous allergies are and how difficult it can be to remember to check, double check and resist temptation. I've landed in resus because someone sneezed and a tiny amount of what they are landed on me.

You advocate blanket bans? Is that just for nuts or for every life threatening allergen in a given primary situation? You would rapidly find yourself in an impossible situation!

I did not mean to patronise

Yes, I support a ban on select allergens in primary schools where there are children currently attending known to have life threatening allergies to said allergens

Having a severe allergy will almost inevitably exclude you from certain situations, it is an unpleasant but something you just have to come to terms with.

I agree that it's something they have to come to terms with but it seems a bit callous to exclude a young child and have them miss out on the experience of having lunch with peers (which has many social benefits) when they may not fully understand why despite being aware of their own allergies.

Thing hit the nail on the head in the sense that it's a gradual process which takes time to perfect and instil. Her 8yo is now capable of handling herself however it wasn't always that way, and chances are a nut ban at her school may well have kept her alive whilst she was still learning how to deal with her allergy. Young children by nature are prone to making mistakes as that's how they learn. A child who goes into anaphylaxis may not get that chance to 'learn from their mistakes' unfortunately so why not keep risks to a minimum until they get to an age where they can be responsible for themselves in that respect?

I don't think Thing meant to patronise, I actually found her post to be very informative. Fact is young children need time to learn how to handle their allergies and throwing them into a closed environment such as a school where nuts are present before they are of an age to be responsible for themselves is incredibly risky, even if said child is made to eat away from everyone else at lunch time.

If school had given clear explanation of why going nut free think it would have been more readily accepted. Exposure to nuts can be dangerous for some folk so yes, YUBU. Of course you may have vegan children and nuts can be an important part of their nutrition so where would that leave you in a nut free environment for 5 meals a week.
There are just so many allergies nowadays and goodness knows how they are all developing. Certainly wasn't around when I was at school. Mind you, we were only given nuts at Christmas/Halloween as a treat.

ok then, lets ban the food mentioned on this thread so far...

gluten
fish
nuts/tree nuts/peanuts/coconuts/almonds (i get confused about the difference - so every type of nuts!)
banana
potato
tomatoes
strawberries
kewi
dairy
eggs
soya
mustard

whilst i appreciate most are not airbourne - someone sneezed on PP Andro and an allergic reaction occured, peanut butter is feared to be smeared on the tables and door handles at school and another child may lick it in error (or put hand in etc....) and teenage smoochies seem to be very high risk, and for the gluten free children the crumbs left behind can be picked up and eaten......
so we'll be inclusive and ban all the mentioned allergens so far -

what exactly can our kids eat at school now?

allergy uk advise against a ban - why are so many people pro ban?

Thingvellir

Sorry for misinterpreting your post

I'm just trying to work out how banning all the allergens would have worked at the school I attended - I know that nuts, eggs, cheese and mushrooms would all have needed banning (and those are just the ones that affected me/people I was close to in a life threatening way).

Short of doing all catering in house, from scratch and with traceable ingredients how would a school enforce it? There are no easy answers.

I agree it's very difficult. I'm not sure there is an easy answer. As others have said its not right to ban one allergen and not the other, especially if other allergens can cause a reaction via airborne particles, but at the same time nut allergies seem to be the most common especially for airborne reactions and if primary schools are regularly taking in students with nut allergies then it makes sense to ban them and reduce the risks as best they can.

boston you've missed oranges.

DH witnessed someone at work with an orange allergy going into anaphylactic shock after someone else peeled an orange on the other side of a large room.

And sesame seeds are mentioned in OPs list.