That teachers do NOT always get it right.

[callherwillow]

1. This is not teacher bashing. Teacher bashing would be criticising people just because they are teachers.

1. I am a teacher. I know children misunderstand things, a lot. I know what can sound awful was actually nothing after establishing the facts. I would never recommend a parent goes in 'guns blazing.'

1. I know teachers work hard. I know it can be thankless task, knackering, the odd mistake can be forgiven and indeed expected and so on and so forth.

Now to the crux.

Whenever someone complains about a teacher on here there are so many replies that assume the parent is unreasonable, that assume the teacher is right (because they are a teacher) and it's getting to the stage where I know opening a thread where someone asks about a teacher (which will happen a lot as so many have school age children) will have numerous pages insisting that whatever they are concerned about either didn't happen at all or that if it did, it's fine and excused on the basis teachers work hard.

No.

Teachers lie. I had a teacher tell a lie about me that could have been very serious indeed. Luckily, enough students were brave enough (and it was brave of them) to be truthful. The teacher in question was their head of year and it was a horribly awkward situation. I have known numerous Headteachers and senior teachers lie. They started their careers as ordinary classroom teachers. Do not kid yourselves teachers won't lie. They might lie out of awkwardness, out of anxiety, out of misplaced loyalty or just to be spiteful.

Teachers do sometimes take against a particular child. I haven't seen this happen a lot - only a handful of times - but it does happen. Again I am NOT saying if you think this is the case to go in 'guns blazing.' I am saying that while it's rare and probably is not the case, it is nonetheless a possibility.

Teachers don't know everything, that should be obvious. However, if you have real concerns about the education your child is getting, it does not stand that because the teacher has a degree and a teaching qualification that they know everything. I nearly missed out on my university place due to not being taught a vital part of the curriculum on one of my A levels. I am sure the teacher did not mean this to happen, I am sure they felt really bad about it. But still, if the university hadn't let me in anyway, that would have altered the course of my life. It certainly affected some other students in the class. It is acceptable to ask questions, to ask on here first and then raise concerns with the teacher. It is not acceptable for a load of ITS A TEACHER DON'T BE DAFT NOW RUN ALONG.

Teachers sometimes make a bad judgement. Nine times out of ten it's probably just a normal human error and I'd say let it go. If it's upsetting your child - raise it. A good teacher won't mind talking to you and sorting out whatever the issue is.

It's the end of term. Teachers for the most part do a brilliant job, but amongst them as well as the kind, intelligent, supportive and enthusiastic are the sinister, cruel, lying, bullying and incompetent. Rare? Yes. Never heard of? No.

Mumsnet is a great resource for sharing ideas about children's education and I think parents should be able to enquire about it without angry teachers slating them for having the gall to ask.

I agree with Marynary. I have often criticised the consultants who misdiagnosed dd on here and I have never once been told that I must be "one of those patients" or had it suggested that I must be causing the problem by passing the attitude onto my children. I tend to be a lot more cautious in my language re teachers, because I know what the reactions are on here. I have however found that you can criticise headteachers quite freely, as long as you don't suggest that a teacher who behaves badly towards a child on the encouragement of the headteacher is equally to blame.

DD has got a bad back, fused discs etc. But she loves sport, she gave it her all on sports day and came second in the 400m. She was so proud of herself until her geography teacher said to her "shame your not that fast in my lesson" sarky nasty fucker, he CUTS his toenails in class!

Also the "don't pass on your attidue" comments are needed.

All teachers have dealt with chidren who say: " My dad says that all teachers are (insert derogatory comment here)"

I've even had parents say the old "Those that can do." saying in front of their children, it does pass on.

There are as many spurious reasons for getting angry with schools posted on here as there are valid. Teachers are denigrated as much as they are defended.

What people forget cory is that head teachers started life as regular teachers.

I don't know smallfox

I've never had that from a parent even once.

Maybe it's your attitude

It is a slippery slope argument to point out that a teacher can be a predator.
Cause you start with "AIBU that my kid was left thirsty" and slide all the way down the slope to crimes . The complete perfect example of a slippery slope argument.

I'll repeat, its fine to complain if its legitimate, but on here there are as many spurious issues that posters get worked up about as there are legitimate.

My teachers actively hated me in Primary school. I was an ugly little kid with a mild disability. I would be routinely critiqued on my posture, my appearance, my lack of friends.

The contrast between the behaviour towards me and the rest was painfully apparent.

No one believed me,. No one would believe me know if I said it again.

It has made me acutely aware of the need to question teachers and their methods when needed.

I agree OP. at the end of the day they are people and the full range of human personalities and foibles with it.

I had one tell my son that his birthday wasn't when he said it was - it's his fecking birthday for fucks sake, he knows when it is! She was awful in lots of ways and is still teaching. Also encountered some teachers that I'd do anything for as they were brilliant in many ways.

But smallfox, it's not a TAAT, it's about an underlying attitude on MN.

It's not a huge difference between 'don't talk bollocks. A teacher wouldn't leave a child thirsty!' to 'don't talk bollocks, a teacher wouldn't molest a child.'

MY attitude is fine, btw, maybe you haven't dealt with many difficult parents.

There is a huge difference Callherwillow, first of all, the first one isn't a major safe guarding issue. Its also a slippery slope to imply that people who say not to bother about minor issues would do the same with major ones.

Not true Marynary - there are plenty of threads regarding GPs, Nurses and Surgery Receptionists on Mumsnet that do just that. It's probably more down to the fact that our children go to school daily, whereas they don't see a GP daily, which addresses the posts balance.

The thread about the DS water coach trip had probably about three or four posts about how teachers can do no wrong, with the vast majority advising the OP to wait and see what the teacher comes back with, rather than just rant. Yet this thread is using it as an example of how so many people think teachers can do no wrong! Pretty much everyone, teachers included, would abhor mistreatment of children but it seems some are more quick than others to attack them straight away.

Surely it's just common sense to find out the full facts to a situation before going ballistic? Why the need for an AIBU thread before seeing the school, if not just to rant about the teacher in question?

Everyone has a story to tell about teachers as we all went to school, so I feel that there are so many instances of personal experiences clouding judgement on both sides to be honest.

OP I hope you feel better for having got your point off your chest but I really don't see how this thread can achieve anything...

I agree it's very different in acrion but the overlying attitude is identical. I was joking about the attitude comment by the way - I'm just trying to point out that it's frustrating to be told YOU are the problem because of someone else's behaviour and parents must feel the same.

If you don't feel it achieves anything don't post on it. Many others feel it does :)

As parents I think the important thing is to try not to make it about teachers or other adults, but to show our children what kind of behaviour is expected of them and what kind of behaviour they must not put up with from anyone. Those two points are not contradictory. A child can learn at the same time that he must follow school rules and behave politely and that he must complain through the relevant channels if he witnesses:

sexually inappropriate language/behaviour

disability discrimination

racist or xenophobic language/behaviour

and that it does not matter one bit who the perpetrator is, whether the pupil who is always in trouble or the HoY.

We have had a bit of a problem with repeated xenophobic outbursts from a supply teacher recently: again, ds was very reluctant to do anything about it, but I felt bad when I read the Ofsted report and found it confirmed that xenophobia and racism was identified as a problem in the school and I had just let things slide.

All teachers have dealt with chidren who say: " My dad says that all teachers are (insert derogatory comment here)"

I'm sure you have. What I don't like is the assumption that almost all parental complaints are coming from this position because I just don't believe it. It takes a LOT for me to approach a teacher and I only do it when I feel all other options have been exhausted. I don't know any parent like the ones that are routinely held up as an example of THAT parent and how you must guard against being here on MN.

In fact I would go so far as to say that the most hostility I see in the school/parent relationship flows from teachers towards parents here on MN - constant statements of "you'll be laughed at in the staff room", "they'll be rolling their eyes at you" "don't be THAT parent" - ok I won't be THAT parent and you can try not being THAT dismissive teacher, laughing at my worries for my child. It's almost as though we should be adopting a position of subservience towards schools and teachers with regards to our children.

I'm sorry but when you've dealt with parents who blame you for children losing property in secondary you have met THAT parent.

At no point have I ever said its not ok to complain, I've said some are legitimiate some are not. There are lots of cases on here where parents are concerned correctly, some where they are being that parent, some where teachers are in the wrong.

But keep ranting away, I've been quite reasoned in my response, I can't be arsed to deal with this as its not reasoned at all.

Jeez, no one is ranting

We get YOU are perfect and have difficult parents. Do you accept not all teachers are perfect and not all parents are just being arses?

Smallfox, I'm not sure that you understand what a slippery slope is.

In your example of 15.01.43, it's not calling (a tiny minority of) teachers predatory that's a slippery slope, refusing a child a drink is.

Are you seriously saying parents shouldn't be able to complain about teachers leaving their children thirsty in case we move on to calling them pedophiles? Seriously? Because that's the 'slippery slope' argument you are making in that post.

I was taught art by a complete perv, a teacher who hated my brother (CP but fiercely intelligent) fought to have him put in the remedial stream when he went up to senior school as he wasn't "normal" and it was "disgusting" that he should be with "ordinary" children (she didn't realise that one of the teachers involved in the discussions was a friend of my mothers) and when she then had me in her class she liked me for 5 seconds til she heard my (unusual) surname, then became a total bitch for the rest of middle school.

DD has had the misfortune to have 2 teachers who openly told me they didn't believe in dyslexia and taunted her in front of her classmates for her reading. The Head refused to believe it and so we voted with our feet - which is not as easy a proposition as some here seem to believe. I work in a school now and there are at least 2 teachers/TAs who are either a) incompetent at admin and blame everyone else for their mistakes or b) actively nasty.

There are also brilliant, caring, hard-working teachers worn to a frazzle by the government's demands on them. They far outnumber the bad ones, but let's not pretend that the bad ones don't exist.

I didn't suggest that was the slippery slope argument, in fact someone else made the connection, and said well if people will say "no one believes that because its a teacher" etc. I repeat THERE ARE LEGITIMATE COMPLAINTS AND CONCERNS but there are also spurious ones, both seem to occur here.

I perfectly understand the arguments.

If you've had such bad experiences complain by all means, complain to ofsted, anything you can do to get those teachers, the head etc struck off.

FFS complaining about a kid not getting a drink for two hours is different from saying dyslexia doesn't exist. I was also not saying all teachers are good.

My point was there are as many legitimate concerns aired on here as there are not, and in many cases the comments about being "that parent"etc would be on the ones that aren't really legitimate. 4

No one is suggesting a complaint to Ofsted. We are suggesting parents have the right to politely approach their child's teacher about any concerns.

I'd hazard a guess that the type of people who are teachers are much like any other career/industry/profession. It'll be a bell curve with some olympic standard wonder teachers at the top, some poor, lazy, nasty articles at the bottom and the majority will fall in the middle.

I'm not in education per se but work somewhere connected with schools/colleges/universities. The above would seem to bare out based on my indirect experience.

However, I will caveat this with the fact that my eldest DD starts school this september. Her younger sibling will follow in a few years. I shall report back in 16 years (ish).

I'm not trying to compare pedophilia with a teacher 'denying' a child a drink at all, but the fact a minority of teachers are predators (like a minority of all human beings are predators) is extremely relevant in a debate where it appears some posters have a 'teacher is always right' attitude, because I have personally witnessed a predator be allowed to abuse children due to exactly that attitude.

I'm not saying the posters here who appear to have a 'teachers are always right' attitude would react that way if informed about a molestation accusation. I'm sure you are all great teachers and would do your due diligence! I'm just saying it's important to not hold bias (in any direction).

I was refering to the poster who said that their children had teachers that refused to acknowledge the existence of dyslexia and mocked the child.

Legitimate complaint!

Kid doesn't get a drink of water on way back from school trip, full circumstances not known, kid was thirsty for a short time, not worth making a fuss about.

The best thing of course would be if we could all agree to deal with each other as individuals. So parents approaching a teacher would think about the merits of the individual case and forget any paedophile or discriminatory teachers they had come across in the past and teachers who received a complaint from a parent would focus entirely on the merits of the case and remember that this parent does not deserve to be judged on the basis of some other precious, ranting or downright dangerous parent. But it cuts both ways. If teachers get worn down by difficult parents, the same thing can happen to parents. We all need to stick to the same rules about the open mind.