To blame Islam even for this??

[durezz]

I have just heard about a maniac axeman who has injured more than 20 people going on a rampage on a train. It's horrific and doesn't bear thinking about.
But is it fair that without any details people automatically assume it has something to do with the religion of Islam?

Of all the atrocities happening these days I feel so sad that after every such incident 1.8 billion Muslims are somehow held responsible. Fair?

Just after a general consensus to pick your brains and see is that really how people think?

How can you control Islam

The vast majority of Muslims are not violent they want what you and I want in life

We could help prevent the spread of radical hate filled ideology that is based on Islam with governments and influential religious leaders/scholars working together to do this difficult now that for so long it has been ignored

Enthusiasm - the problem is you are entirely wrong. The vast majority of Muslims do NOT want what you and I want in life. They want sharia law. That is the whole point of being a Muslim.

Read the Pew poll research, read the polls of British Muslims and their opinions. They do not want the same things as the people of the secular West.

Opinion polls:
www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

Pew Research:
www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

Video of "moderate" Muslims conference - watch this one and you will be in no doubt about the problem posed by Islam in the West:

The vast majority of Muslims are not violent they want what you and I want in life We don't really need to keep on stating this do we?

I agree with you that the real, important question is -- what can be done to combat this spread of violence based on Islam?. But until Islam goes through a similar form of Reformation and Enlightenment as Christianity did, then there's really no hope for this being achieved IMO.

Add to this the fact that we have in The West, political leaders too scared and unsure to really act robustly against the spreading of Islamic fundamentalism, misogyny, homophobia and antipathy to free speech, that is embedded in Islamic theology. As well as the leftists who will always view Muslims as 'victims' and bellow 'racism' and 'islamophobia' at anyone daring to speak out against the hate filled ideology that inspires these murderers. Until that changes, we are and will continue to be, at their mercy. So it's up to them really

No we shouldn't need to keep repeating it as its patronising but it was a response to a post about controlling Islam

Do the majority want sharia law for the country? Or the choice that we have in the west to take from religion what suits

I see that video has been removed. Here is a reupload:

Enthusiasm...

1.6 billion Muslims. 1.1 billion think Sharia law should be THE law.

In the UK...
-23% of Muslims think Sharia law should be THE law
-52% think homosexuality should be illegal
-31% think polygamy should be legalised
-39% think wives should always obey their husbands
-66% would not contact police if someone they knew was involved with Jihad
www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7861/british-muslims-survey

Does this sound like people who just want the same thing as us?

Enthusiasm A big part of our Fundamentals subjects in Law were on Sharia Law and the very real problem it's posing here in Australia, and only around 1-2% of our population is Muslim. I doubt they'd be incorporating that into the curriculum if it was a non-issue.

I personally don't know any Muslims that will be critical of what is in the Koran and will go along with what is written is right as its gods word but they take it in its full context

What is written in the Koran is not how most Muslims live unless it's the state is enforcing it. Do they care if the man down the road is gay, do all men want to control their wives and all women to not be seen as equal in regards to divorce, do so many women want to share their husbands, do so many support terrorist acts even though Muslims are being killed too

I really don't think so but we are seeing a growth in an extreme ideology but asking a Muslim to pull apart the rules of he Koran you will get these answers but how people live their lives is not

No someone is making the point that terrorism is not new (i.e. IRA and others) and is not only perpetrated by Muslims, therefore they don't make an assumption that something horrible on the news is the result of a Jihadist.

Enthusiasm - I'm sorry but you're not seeing the danger here.

The beliefs I listed are widespread amongst British Muslims and beliefs, when held in large enough numbers, will solidify into political representation.

Which means that as their population grows they will end up VOTING for people who espouse these beliefs. They may not personally discriminate against the gay man down the road, but they will vote for someone who says he wants to make homosexuality illegal.

Countries with large Muslim populations are pulled towards Sharia, and eventually that ends up being the dominant political force.

I do see the danger but with surveys like this when asking people to pull apart their religion you will get these results

But voting for who? Most middle eastern countries have not had democratic governments

Would voters put their religious beliefs before what they feel is right for the economy, education, job security and so on maybe some but I don't think it's the majority

scatter
Where do you get the figure of 1.1bn muslims think Sharia should be the law?
Additionally, the majority did not think that Sharia should apply to non-Muslims
"Muslims who favor making sharia the law of the land generally agree that the requirements of Islam should apply only to Muslims. Across the regions where the question was asked, medians of at least 51% say sharia should apply exclusively to adherents of the Muslim faith. This view is prevalent even in regions such as South Asia, Southeast Asia and the Middle East and North Africa, where there is overwhelming support for enshrining sharia as the official law of the land"
From the research you linked to above.

Op I think that your question is insensitive and quite frankly self centred and selfish following on the terrible crime committed in Nice.

So instead of looking how we, as a society, could support and help people to not become radicalised, you ask why Some people, not all people, point the finger at all Muslims.

I would like to see everyone, Including Muslim people, ask how we can stop the terrorism acts. I do not like the tone of your post, which makes you (the Muslim community) sound as if you are the only victims. We are all victims.

Very interesting opinion here: www.independent.co.uk/voices/stop-calling-people-imperialist-islamophobes-when-they-mourn-terrorist-attacks-in-the-west-on-social-a7145971.html

"I would like to see everyone, Including Muslim people, ask how we can stop the terrorism acts. I do not like the tone of your post, which makes you (the Muslim community) sound as if you are the only victims. We are all victims."

based on a post by someone who claims to be Muslim on an anonymous board you are drawing conclusions about the whole of the Muslim 'community'? As if there were some sort of cohesive Muslim community.

Thanks for the link Blue.

If we want to combat this Islamic terrorism we need to try and get muslims to stop taking the koran as literally true. They need to teach everyone that comes into their mosques that the koran is not to be followed word for word, until they do that some muslims will continue taking it literally and killing people.

Perhaps this needs to part of the RE lessons and definitely a condition of citizenship.

Additionally, the majority did not think that Sharia should apply to non-Muslims

should we be comforted by those numbers? First of all, an alarming number think sharia should apply to non-muslims. Second, given that apostasy carries a heavy penalty under sharia, any muslims wishing to convert away from islam to escape sharia face possibly death.

To reasonable people who are knowledgeable about Islam it is not all Muslims who are to blame.Their problematic religion is.Luckily most Muslims don't read their Korans and cherry pick when they do. It is not right to say that IS etc are not real muslims.They are the most devout out there.Please,read the Koran.It's a hideous frightening faith and those born to it are brainwashed from birth.It will make your blood run cold and the attacks will make much more sense when you read the words of the warlord prophet.Muslims are the first victims of Islam.After reading the Koran you will think even more highly of those Muslims who DONT follow their holy book and who are nice people despite the violence and hatred in their holy book.

I personally think that we need to pick some of these conservative, regressive, misogynistic ideas apart. It's ideas that we are fighting. Not really a specific organisation. Al Quaida was replaced by ISIS, if ISIS goes something else will take its place. We have to win the argument. To win the argument, you have to make the case. To make the case, you cannot be afraid to open your mouth

^^ I couldn't agree more

So why are we afraid to do this? Pull apart the ideas and challenge them?

But the influence is Wahhabism (by the funding of many mosques) has also coincided with the number of women wearing the niqab
I agree it has no place in a progressive society as women become invisible but that quashes religious freedom what government wants to do that

yy rural people in the backwaters of syria and iraq know the Niqab is purely from Saudi, they know whats going on.

When I see more and more women near me wearing them I think saudi, whabbism has landed and I worry about extremism.

It supports the argument that we shouldn't overreact to what is statistically a minor, though dramatic problem

Yes but the problem is whabbism is spreading and with it, extremism and nasty ideas which all lead to terrorism, repression and misery

I personally think that we need to pick some of these conservative, regressive, misogynistic ideas apart. It's ideas that we are fighting. Not really a specific organisation. Al Quaida was replaced by ISIS, if ISIS goes something else will take its place. We have to win the argument. To win the argument, you have to make the case. To make the case, you cannot be afraid to open your mouth

^^ I couldn't agree more

So why are we afraid to do this? Pull apart the ideas and challenge them?

But the influence is Wahhabism (by the funding of many mosques) has also coincided with the number of women wearing the niqab
I agree it has no place in a progressive society as women become invisible but that quashes religious freedom what government wants to do that

yy rural people in the backwaters of syria and iraq know the Niqab is purely from Saudi, they know whats going on.

When I see more and more women near me wearing them I think saudi, whabbism has landed and I worry about extremism.

It supports the argument that we shouldn't overreact to what is statistically a minor, though dramatic problem

Yes but the problem is whabbism is spreading and with it, extremism and nasty ideas which all lead to terrorism, repression and misery

I personally think that we need to pick some of these conservative, regressive, misogynistic ideas apart. It's ideas that we are fighting. Not really a specific organisation. Al Quaida was replaced by ISIS, if ISIS goes something else will take its place. We have to win the argument. To win the argument, you have to make the case. To make the case, you cannot be afraid to open your mouth

^^ I couldn't agree more

So why are we afraid to do this? Pull apart the ideas and challenge them?

But the influence is Wahhabism (by the funding of many mosques) has also coincided with the number of women wearing the niqab
I agree it has no place in a progressive society as women become invisible but that quashes religious freedom what government wants to do that

yy rural people in the backwaters of syria and iraq know the Niqab is purely from Saudi, they know whats going on.

When I see more and more women near me wearing them I think saudi, whabbism has landed and I worry about extremism.

It supports the argument that we shouldn't overreact to what is statistically a minor, though dramatic problem

Yes but the problem is whabbism is spreading and with it, extremism and nasty ideas which all lead to terrorism, repression and misery

I personally think that we need to pick some of these conservative, regressive, misogynistic ideas apart. It's ideas that we are fighting. Not really a specific organisation. Al Quaida was replaced by ISIS, if ISIS goes something else will take its place. We have to win the argument. To win the argument, you have to make the case. To make the case, you cannot be afraid to open your mouth

^^ I couldn't agree more

So why are we afraid to do this? Pull apart the ideas and challenge them?

But the influence is Wahhabism (by the funding of many mosques) has also coincided with the number of women wearing the niqab
I agree it has no place in a progressive society as women become invisible but that quashes religious freedom what government wants to do that

yy rural people in the backwaters of syria and iraq know the Niqab is purely from Saudi, they know whats going on.

When I see more and more women near me wearing them I think saudi, whabbism has landed and I worry about extremism.

It supports the argument that we shouldn't overreact to what is statistically a minor, though dramatic problem

Yes but the problem is whabbism is spreading and with it, extremism and nasty ideas which all lead to terrorism, repression and misery

I personally think that we need to pick some of these conservative, regressive, misogynistic ideas apart. It's ideas that we are fighting. Not really a specific organisation. Al Quaida was replaced by ISIS, if ISIS goes something else will take its place. We have to win the argument. To win the argument, you have to make the case. To make the case, you cannot be afraid to open your mouth

^^ I couldn't agree more

So why are we afraid to do this? Pull apart the ideas and challenge them?

But the influence is Wahhabism (by the funding of many mosques) has also coincided with the number of women wearing the niqab
I agree it has no place in a progressive society as women become invisible but that quashes religious freedom what government wants to do that

yy rural people in the backwaters of syria and iraq know the Niqab is purely from Saudi, they know whats going on.

When I see more and more women near me wearing them I think saudi, whabbism has landed and I worry about extremism.

It supports the argument that we shouldn't overreact to what is statistically a minor, though dramatic problem

Yes but the problem is whabbism is spreading and with it, extremism and nasty ideas which all lead to terrorism, repression and misery

Second, given that apostasy carries a heavy penalty under sharia, any muslims wishing to convert away from islam to escape sharia face possibly death.

^^ hardly religious freedom is it, no wonder people are afraid to speak out.

surely we need clear messages sent out, you area allowed to believe on relinquish your beliefs as you wish in the UK?