To blame Islam even for this??

[durezz]

I have just heard about a maniac axeman who has injured more than 20 people going on a rampage on a train. It's horrific and doesn't bear thinking about.
But is it fair that without any details people automatically assume it has something to do with the religion of Islam?

Of all the atrocities happening these days I feel so sad that after every such incident 1.8 billion Muslims are somehow held responsible. Fair?

Just after a general consensus to pick your brains and see is that really how people think?

You do know that ex soldiers are disproportionately likely to commit violent crime

But the people committing these acts in Europe aren't ex soldiers, are they? The European nationality kids going to join ISIS aren't ex soldiers.

Have you ever noticed that it's not young people from more directly affected backgrounds in Europe that join ISIS or commit these attacks? No one from the British Palestinian community has, nor the British Syrian community, nor the British Lebanese community, nor the British Iraqi community.

In fact, I'm struggling to think of someone from a British Arab background that has gone to join ISIS or committed any ISIS related attacks in Europe. The majority of British nationals or residents involved are of North African, African or Indian subcontinental descent.

I find that very interesting.

lovemyretsis, the Syrian war had nothing to do with Tony Blair and was in fact underway for four years before Merkel issued her welcome. As Frontex and the UNHCR have admitted, only about 40% of the migrants who entered Europe in a chaotic and uncontrolled manner were even from Syria. There has been serious crime and social unrest in European countries as a direct result of this. There were many ways of helping genuine war refugees and Merkel chose the most foolish and damaging one, privileging the well-off while leaving the truly poor and desperate behind in camps.

Hilarious that you think we should discuss this in a nuanced way when you dismiss my views as "bigoted shite" and influenced by the Daily Mail, just because they don't tally with yours. I have lived and travelled in Muslim countries, have a good grasp of the history of Islam and the Middle East, and have read the Koran and the hadith. I have Muslim friends though they probably wouldn't count to many as they are secular liberal feminists. I've read Muslim feminist writers like Nawal el Saadawi and Maryam Namazie, and have followed the depressing backsliding into Islamism of formerly secular countries. I know aid workers who have spent time in Afghanistan and who are genuinely concerned that young Afghan men are entering Europe in large numbers. Where is your compassion for the victims here?

Werkz
This young man had been brought up in a warzone, so there is a chance that he would have been affected in a similar way to combatants.

^In fact, I'm struggling to think of someone from a British Arab background that has gone to join ISIS ^
Mohammed Emwazi (Jihadi John) was born in Kuwait to parents of Iraqi origin and went to school in West London - he is probably the most notorious of all British ISIS members.

Is a blind child privileged shins? An old man in a wheelchair? A ninety year old woman? S man with heart failure pushing a wheel chair for miles? A man with one leg?

Are those that travel across the sea risking death privileged? Are you serious?

To add to the complex issues in the Middle East and North Africa has been the Arab Spring that often gets overlooked this was meant to change everything and give the people back some power but all that has happened is things have got harder for people

The people fighting their own governments after suffering years of oppression then being left with an even more difficult struggle has been like a gift to those who wish to spread extreme conservative Islam that hate the west and teaches their followers that the west oppresses them

Just to wade in with my opinion - no I don't think Islam.

I do think Men though. I always assume a man has perpetrated the violence and I am almost always right.

It was in the paper yesterday about a young girl murdered by her muslim brother for taking and posting sexy selfies. He has no regrets as she brought shame to the family

is that religious or cultural I wonder. So many young girls murdered in Muslim families for such so called crimes

werkz another good point, how many uk soldiers from recent wars have flipped out and savagely attacked on mass like this?

Emily, yes, relatively privileged. If you can afford several thousand euros to pay criminal people traffickers then you are relatively privileged to most of your compatriots in countries like Iraq. That's a simple fact. But I await your tear stained explanations as to why the Afghan here is actually the real victim and not his hapless victims.

Felicia, that's naive and disingenuous. Certainly men commit most violent crime. But why is it that some cultures are full of bloodshed and violence and others are not? All people are born equal but not all cultures are equal. One of the most dislikable things about Islam ( and most religions if you interpret them literally) is its misogyny.

"is that religious or cultural I wonder."

Does it matter? Culture invents religion. Religion reinforces culture. Keeps us stuck in the middle ages.

I agree with Felicia. No one ever talks about that particular characteristic that most terrorists/killers have in common.

why dont islamic 'experts' produce a koran that doesn't need interpreting and makes it explicit that hurting any other human being for any reason what so ever is wrong and will send you to hell for eternity

I'm sure someone else can explain this better than me, but it honestly doesn't work like that. The Quran is regarded as the settled word of Allah, not to be challenged or even (according to many) translated from the original Arabic

So what we seem to be left with is which "bits" any individual chooses to act on

I see a lot of people mentioning the possibility of him being mentally ill, as if that somehow excuses Islam from any responsibility. If the 'unaccompanied minor' in question had been brought up in the Amish community and went mad, I would suggest they might throw some furniture around the house. If a person brought up in the Islamic religion goes mad, they commit mass murder because that is the crap that has been shoved in his head. Islam is responsible whether or not he was mentally ill. why the hell else was he shouting "allahu akbar".

It's well documented that many refugees in the camps in turkey had many of the wealthier members of Syrian society

The whole Syrian crises has been handled terribly. We knew long before how people were suffering both in Syria and in the refugee camps. This should haven been a united effort so people were able to travel safely and we can't ignore the security issues of having so many people entering Europe with minimal checks

I feel

We should be taking in the more vulnerable people straight from the camps

Felicia, that's naive and disingenuous

How can something be naive and disingenuous at the same time?

And it's neither. It's just Maths.

I do think Men though. I always assume a man has perpetrated the violence and I am almost always right.

All the time pretty much

The Quran is regarded as the settled word of Allah, not to be challenged or even (according to many) translated from the original Arabic

Yea, I thought it would be that, hence why everyone who follows the koran is responsible for this terrorism because the koran advocates this violent jihadism. Or maybe I am just interpreting it wrong?

“Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. Allah desires killing to manifest the religion.’”

Puzzled, I'm not an expert but my understanding is that Mohammed went into his cave. He was illiterate but Allah told him to "read". That's when the Quran was handed to him.

So it is the word of God unlike the New Testament which was well a collection of testimonies. However... Mohammed passed it all on orally. It was then written down later by scholars.

So yes there is a case that it should be open to interpretation if that is true.

call335 - you are right when you say almost all these atrocities are carried out by men. Also, over half of refugees and immigrants are men. Where are all the women and children? Have they left them behind to suffer. Also, why are these men not fighting for their country, like my Grandfather fought for his?

Does it matter? Culture invents religion. Religion reinforces culture. Keeps us stuck in the middle ages

of course it matters!

The young man has I believe been in Germany for TWO years, and been in care and recently was fostered by a family. Goodness knows how that foster family feels right now.

But madmen you can't separate the two. Religion isn't real. It's not an eternal truth. It's a reflection of and a reaction to the society of the time.

I don't think two years is long enough to turn around the way someone fundamentally thinks.

I really dislike this growing narrative of mental health problems caused by ptsd being the reason for these actions. Millions of people suffered horrendously during the second world war.

Excellent point.

"Yea, I thought it would be that, hence why everyone who follows the koran is responsible for this terrorism because the koran advocates this violent jihadism. Or maybe I am just interpreting it wrong? "

It's views like these ^ leading to this > www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-36832619

You can't ecourage or discourage people from leaving a war zone shins. Describing those running away as 'privileged' is ridiculous, as is the poit ou tagged on about my tears.

In camps or travelling to Europe, they're all vulnerable. Arguing about who deserves the most for being the most virtuous kind of refugee is sick.

The majority of British nationals or residents involved are of North African, African or Indian subcontinental descent.

Why do you think that is, Werkz?