To blame Islam even for this??

[durezz]

I have just heard about a maniac axeman who has injured more than 20 people going on a rampage on a train. It's horrific and doesn't bear thinking about.
But is it fair that without any details people automatically assume it has something to do with the religion of Islam?

Of all the atrocities happening these days I feel so sad that after every such incident 1.8 billion Muslims are somehow held responsible. Fair?

Just after a general consensus to pick your brains and see is that really how people think?

I agree, ISIS are going to claim responsibility wherever they feasibly can. It makes sense for them to. I doubt the man responsible had even had any contact with them at all.

"That's pork eating, whore chasing alcoholic psychopathic CUNT he was. ugh"

EllyMayClampett Tue 19-Jul-16 10:04:55

Your spot on.

One has to remember though, whilst we are used to Christianity being ridiculed, laughed at, and its water off a ducks back, its very different in Islam. We are used to Life Of Brian, Father Ted, raucous jokes about priests and vicars...In Islam, even a cartoon of the Prophet is seen as a major transgression.

However Its a Religion. Like Scientology, cults, Catholicism, it absolutely must be open to scrutiny.

As for this latest atrocity yes, My first thoughts were - ISIS.
Then my thoughts turned to the young boy who cut the theater in Calais with knives, causing the actors ( Jude Law etc ) I believe to flee. From the reports it seemed he was confused as to why an area he used had been turned into a theater. He was very disturbed, from Afghan too I think. We cannot imagine what these men and boys have been through.

I honestly think the guy in Nice (from what is emerging) would have been the type to go into a school with a gun and kill, just a twisted man who watched Jihad for kicks. As others have said ISIS are going to claim every atrocity. There's a great thing on FB where moderate Muslims (the huge majority) hold up placards every time saying 'not in my name' I always share it but it gets no press attention because it doesn't fit the anti-Muslim sympathies of the Daily Malice and its like.

Unfortunately I think nowadays many people DO think 'muslim' when they hear of anything like this ... I know I do.

I find that the news mostly inform if an incident in not terror related but are more cautious when it could be leaving to the conclusion it probably is.

Yet another incident of male violence.

Whether it was Islamist remains to be seen. Not so sure. The attack was a bit ineffectual for someone with a political agenda. I'd guess random madman.

To pp who said the op's question is bizarre, I tend to agree. A belief system can only be responsible for an event through the actions of people. Sadly, belief systems have had a poor record in human history of being appropriated for people's own ends. I for one wish it were otherwise.

Quite. Are all Catholics tainted by the actions of the Inquisition?

Do people really not think that there are muslims who are very disturbed with mental health problems??? Thats exactly what I think this person was.

Also I hope you can see through the media spin and ulterior motive in these cases. The original story was around 20, later toned down to 3 or 4 with 16 treated for shock. Can you see what the papers are doing here? Sensationalising, misreporting and exaggerating for clicks and circulation figures.

If muslims think Islam is a peaceful religion then why is the koran so violent? To which I am told the extremists are interpreting it incorrectly.

So what I dont understand is, why dont islamic 'experts' produce a koran that doesn't need interpreting and makes it explicit that hurting any other human being for any reason what so ever is wrong and will send you to hell for eternity.

Until they do that and continue to supporta religion that is so violent then all followers of islam are responsible for these acts of terror.

I heard that he did shout something about Allah though. It was on Sky but don't know if it's true or not!

Some witnesses quoted by German media said they had heard him shout "Allahu akbar" ("God is great") during the attack.

BBC

My point is, its all in the circumstances WHICH CONTRARY TO POPULAR BELIEF EVEN THE PAPETS DONT KNOW. A muslim who shouts an islamic statement is perfectly likely to have severe mental health issues as much as he is likely to be a "terrorist". And surely ISIS likes to falsely claim anything going as it serves their purpose to scare people.

I love the way so many people who have never read the Koran or the hadith can confidently declare that these attacks have "nothing to do with Islam" and the works of a random madman. And before anyone jumps in with quotes from Leviticus, the majority of Christians follow the New Testament, and in any case, Christianity itself has been thoroughly neutered and sidelined by Enlightenment values and scientific development in the last few centuries in a way that Islam has not. Islam must be as open to scrutiny and challenges and criticism as any ideology. Instead we have this head in the sand nonsense, as well as cowardly pandering to the kind of people who will kill over a cartoon, and their supporters.

I seriously doubt that guy is 17. Do people know what an extremely violent, backward place Afghanistan is? And how alarming it is that about 120, 000 young men from that region have moved to Germany thanks to Merkel? This has had depressingly predictable consequences and it's mostly women and children who are suffering.

My thoughts when I heard he was a 17 year old Afghan refugee was that he may well have mental health problems. You have to assume that a fair proportion of young people who have been brought up in a warzone will have been pyschologically damaged. He had travelled as an unaccompanied minor and had been living in a refugee centre until recently. It doesn't sound like a stable background.

Let's see... If you list almost every single terrorist attack since 2001, what's the one most defining characteristic?
Although not a terrorist attack, I've just been reading about a mother and her daughters being stabbed for being skimpily dressed in France. Hot on the heels of the German train stabbings.

Oh come off it Shins. Why do you think Merkel 'let the refugees in'? It was for humanitarian reasons. What should Europe have done instead? Stand by whilst human beings were murdered by ISIS because of a war started by Tony Blair based on no evidence? Why so outraged at Merkel who set out to help but omit Blair in your hateful rants?

It's the same bigoted shite over and over gain. Previously only seen in the DM's comment section but now spreading on MN like a bloody virus.
Shins What should Europe do about Muslims living in Europe then? What do you suggest?

I really dislike this growing narrative of mental health problems caused by ptsd being the reason for these actions.

Millions of people suffered horrendously during the second world war. Survivors of camps and gulags had lived in conditions and situations that left them with ptsd for their entire lives. My grandfather was still having night terrors and hallucinations in his early 80s.

Yet none of these people went out and committed mass murder, even when they had an opportunity to attack the perpetrators after the war.

Through my family's experiences and the work I did in the late 90s in post conflict zones, I gave a very good idea of how bad things can get in a theatre of war. Nothing provides a reason for the mass murder of innocent civilians. Nothing.

Boys

If you list the terrrorist attacks in Spain from 2001 what is the defining characteristic? (clue Not Islam)

Sorry (not really!), but why does ptsd have to be the cause of mental health problems? I cant see why its not obvious to all that theres a huge difference between an idealogical terrorist and someone whos "gone off his rocker" and commited an atrocity (and there are plenty of non muslims who do this in both the uk and the us).

Werkz
You do know that ex soldiers are disproportionately likely to commit violent crime
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/returning-soldiers-more-likely-to-commit-violent-crimes-at-home-if-they-witnessed-traumatic-events-8534974.html

"An investigation of nearly 14,000 military personnel found that about 20 per cent of young servicemen under the age of 30 had at least one conviction for a violent offence compared with less than 7 per cent for young men of a similar age in the general population.

The scientists who carried out the research found a strong association between the likelihood of being a violent offender and exposure to traumatic incidents during combat. They also found a link between violent offending and alcohol misuse and post-traumatic stress disorder.

The study found that while the overall rate of lifetime criminality among military personnel was lower than the general population, the incidence of violent offending among ex-servicemen – ranging from threats of violent to serious assaults or worse – was 11 per cent compared with 8.7 per cent among men at large."

Discussing Islamism and global Islamist terrorism constructively is very much needed and perfectly acceptable but can it please happen in a nuanced way? I thought MN is for parents to support each other. I don't know if I could like to come on here to seek advice at the memento if I were a Muslim mother. There is just so much bigotry and "Muslims are evil" rhetoric going on. Shame.

I hope people don't think like that but it seems the majority to do.

Love, you are correct about the increasing anti-Muslim sentiment on MN. It is seriously worrying, and if Muslim was replaced by Jew, or Islam by Judaism, it would not go unchallenged by MN users and headquarters. Very sad and worrying times.

As refugees and illegal immigrants are being mentioned a lot on this thread, can I recommend people watch the brilliant three part series Exodus which was shown on BBC 2 last week. It's not happy viewing, but it sure does make you think.