To not understand why parents encourage music

[angryeumigrant]

when classical musicians earn so little.

The real money in music is in music production, composing, DJing, club nights, breakthrough bands, etc. Even that is not what it was in say the 1980s. There is next to no money in classical music performance.

I'll all for children learning to play an instrument for pleasure, read music, music theory, etc. However, I do wonder why parents would not actively discourage their children from spending too much time playing an instrument during GCSE / A-Levels. I think it's one of those things that is considered a "good thing" without it ever getting looked at objectively.

I would much rather my child was composing electronic music or sounding a computer game than reaching a top level playing the violin, because frankly the former is not only more creative but also more career-enhancing.

Best of luck, MrsDeVere. I know that the Conservatoire of Dance and Drama has a specific policy for people with additional needs in order to help them access training, so maybe Guildhall does too?

3 dcs, 2 musical.
For dyslexic Dd2 it was a subject in which she excelled. She went on to be a soloist in the Regional choir and sing both at the Edinburgh Festival and in a rock band.
For shy anti-social Ds, bass guitar and drums have been a life line, a confidence giver and a way to make friends.
They wouldn't be the kids they are, or have the friends they have without music.

My DH teaches a classical instrument. One of his pupils has ADHD and was barely able to sit on a chair for more than 5 seconds in the beginning. It has taken DH nearly two years of patience, but now the pupil is able to concentrate for short periods, follow simple instructions and play a few notes. His parents and academic teacher are thrilled to bits with his progress, especially with the improvement in his concentration and fine motor skills.

Perhaps you should just book him an audition at Jr Guildhall? I know that they don't expect the younger ones to just be dropped off, and that they don't provide supervision between activities for them, so that the place is open to parents all day as well. Most teenagers probably are coming alone and don't need that, but it means that it would be possible for someone to be around to provide whatever support he needed. That's for the classical music program; I don't know anyone who has done other types of music or what they offer for that in terms of lessons/ensembles etc., but if they have a saturday school for that, I'd guess that it would work in a similar way. You could just discuss whatever adaptations he needs once you knew specifically which activities would be included in his programme. I think auditions are usually in the spring but possibly also other times of the year; they follow school terms, so might be just about finished at the moment, which may be why it's hard to get an answer?

I've got a jolly good career thanks which I attribute to having done a degree in musicology following an undergraduate degree in music.

The study of music is highly academic.

My dd1 loves music. Current career aspiration is to be a composer. Who am I to tell her no? She's 8. She's been playing instruments for two years and in that time I've watched her grow into a confident, dedicated child who applies the hard work she understands as being beneficial to her playing to all areas of her life. She got a very high mark in a violin exam recently.

As for me, I became severely depressed a few years ago and choir (see username) played a part in my recovery, both then and more recently when things were bad again.

I work in music teaching part time and think the OP asks excellent questions.

OP, to get some real answers, try anything by Lucy Green, Dave Hesmondhaugh or "A Very short introduction to music" from the series of the same name.

But basically OP you nailed it at the "Victorian fantasy" bit and any number of sociologists have documented this :)

My 6 yr old dd is learning the violin. Is she gifted - no , will she do it as a career - no. She came home aged 5 and asked to learn. I was deeply sceptical as she sings like a strangled cat but I said yes in case it was the one time she asked to open the door into a world that gave me untold pleasure and confidence as a mixed up, geeky socially awkward kid. I have barely played since leaving uni but I would never deprive my children of that chance. It was the one thing I was good at and it gave me an identity. Since day one she has asked to practice every day, when she was struggling and I asked if she wanted to stop she cried at the thought of never playing again. It's not because I am middle class - it's because she wants to and at 6 I don't give a monkeys about her future career choices.

I am v working class and learned instruments because I begged my parents to let me (and they then moaned about my practising and how much they hated going to concerts).

I am not a professional musician but music gave me the following:

• the ability to work well in groups large and small (chamber music/trios/orchestras etc)
• perseverance and a sense of achievement
• the ability to do something creative and express myself in ways that words could not convey- to 'lose myself'
• a deeper appreciation of ALL forms of music- classical, rock, rave, cheese- all of it.
• I loved it
• It kept me out of trouble- if you're sitting with a horn section behind you on a Saturday morning you are not going out and getting pissed on a Friday night.
• I bloody loved it
• I still love it (though I don't get much time these days)
• Did I mentioned I loved it?

I'm encouraging my kids to play instruments, if they want (they do) as to me I just can't imagine life without it. When my kids are bigger and I've got more time doing more music again is high on my list of priorities.

I think that the OP is just being goady!

"Gwen you just didn't make the right choices FOR YOU whereas other former students may have made the same choices and not regretted them. "

But I made the wrong choice partly because of the emphasis put on music that OP talks about. I don't think you can blame a 14 year old for not knowing what's good for them in the long run.

"Giving up sport and music wouldn't have made available enough time to have studdied an extra A level."

Wouldn't it? I think it might have done for many children. I regret the emphasis on music in my childhood, including even the school choir. There are other things.

Because there is nothing so transcendentally life-affirming as playing in a good orchestra or choir. Sing Mozarts requiem in a cathedral with full orchestra and it would be axiomatic that you'd encourage your children to be able to experience it also. Simple as that. I have no desire or expectation that my kids will become professional musicians, but damned right they will not leave our house without being able to read music, I see it as important as learning to read and count. Ditto basic competence in drawing. Why are the arts so devalued in our society?

My daughter is 16 and has only played piano for just over 3 years. She's self-taught from YouTube and the like and has an amazing natural talent for it...she can hear a song on the way back from school and 15 minutes later can have a decent working version on our piano, an hour or so and can be playing it better than the original. She sat her National 5 music exam in May using a grade 7 piece (one of Chopin's Nocturnes) and she's going on to Higher grade. She plays every day because she enjoys it. And there is nothing in this world that destresses me (or her) quicker than sitting listening to her on the piano; it's wonderful. She is also an amazing artist and a born creative. She wants to be a tattoo artist. With a talent for something that she loves and makes her happy, I'll be seven shades of damned before I tell her that she needs to jack it in and get a "proper" career. There's more to life than the corporate wheel.

"basic competence in drawing. Why are the arts so devalued in our society?"

If anything was overdone in my education it was drawing. I remember SO much of it in primary school. Seemed to be almost every day and then the first year of secondary was making posters all the time. It's not something you can learn. You could try to teach me to draw for 50 years and I still wouldn't be able to.

"It kept me out of trouble- if you're sitting with a horn section behind you on a Saturday morning you are not going out and getting pissed on a Friday night."

If you're talking about under 18s that's probably a positive, but if you're talking about young adults, I wouldn't say that missing out on socialising with friends was a good thing.

Haven't read the whole thread, but I would point out that the single minded focus on a career is probably out of date thinking.

One of my DBs has continued his interest in music into adulthood. He plays in and conducts orchestras, big bands, smaller groups. It has gradually transitioned from being purely for fun to being self funding, and is heading towards being a significant part of his income. He now juggles music stuff and more conventional work, and has a couple of projects which combine both. This sort of portfolio career with no defined boundaries between "work" and "life" is likely to become the norm.

Which is why I will continue to encourage my DC to retain a balance of other interests throughout secondary education (after that it's up to them!) - there is a lot more to preparing yourself for the future world of work than exams.

I have always felt a bit sad that a love of classical music was something I couldn't/didn't give to/share with my daughter.

She did have the opportunity to study percussion at her secondary school and play in an orchestra. But it didn't hugely 'take'.

However she's now studying at a college where there's a famous choir and does go to hear them sing from time to time. So sometimes the music will find its way to a young person, and all ends - reasonably - happily.

....surely a large part of the attraction of grade 6 and above music exams is that you get UCAS points for them - a grade 8 is like an extra A-Level when it comes to uni applications, so it can bump you up to a better uni or reduce your offer (thereby easing pressure slightly if it can turn eg: an AAA offer into an AAB).

Classical training provides an underlying foundation of skill that is transferable to a range of other musical outlets that may be more profitable - how many voices in the pop world have a level of classical training either for the voice or for musical instruments behind that. It teaches reading music, rhythm, and a whole range of other things that are transferable.

There has been lots of research into how music benefits the development of the brain. Neuroscientists have shown so many benefits .... so I think it a brilliant thing to do .... watch this for more info

Why do parents encourage horse riding? No money in that either.

You just end up with some priceless life skills instead.

I wish I'd learned the piano properly, my mother learned in her 40s and I intend to (once I buy a piano!)

Is it our primary role as parents to steer children towards income maximisation?

Or is it more about helping them to become well-rounded human beings with a range of skills?

Well tbh, you could apply your point of view to any extra curricular activity we sign our DC up for. Not much money to be made out of going to girl guides, swimming lessons, ballet... Actually they're a huge money pit for parents, we just hope it goes some way to making our children's lives that much more fulfilled and worth living. I don't think my dd will earn money in the future from playing the piano, if she did that's fantastic (she can pay me back!). Playing and creating music is a very human thing, I get very emotional seeing children play music.

OP, when you move away from children being encouraged by parents and look at those pursuing a career, even from the youngest age 8 students, they are having classes in music tech, including composing, conducting, music production, sampling, etc. They are encouraged as much in this as they are in the classical or jazz genres they study.
Whilst UCAS points from the grades aren't accepted towards entrance for the conservatoires, music is compulsory at GCSE and A level, with the option of Music Tech at A level, in addition to the compulsory.
In their free time they often form unofficial groups and work together with recording equipment and producing each others work. They take turns to DJ for school disco's.

I wouldn't say it was necessarily more career enhancing if it is performance you want to do, but neither would I say a Degree was, unless you want to go down teaching or Arts admin avenues.

As for not being able to support themselves, yes the real musicians do support themselves although they don't get rich.
There's a saying about the real professionals paying their dues and starving for their Art, some aren't prepared to do this though and get a day job.

As a family we get by, I'm glad my dh didn't sell his soul to the devil and has stuck out for what he believes in. yes, we could have been very rich with lots of material possessions had he chosen another path, like teaching but he's a musician, it's who he is and i'm proud.