To not understand why parents encourage music

[angryeumigrant]

when classical musicians earn so little.

The real money in music is in music production, composing, DJing, club nights, breakthrough bands, etc. Even that is not what it was in say the 1980s. There is next to no money in classical music performance.

I'll all for children learning to play an instrument for pleasure, read music, music theory, etc. However, I do wonder why parents would not actively discourage their children from spending too much time playing an instrument during GCSE / A-Levels. I think it's one of those things that is considered a "good thing" without it ever getting looked at objectively.

I would much rather my child was composing electronic music or sounding a computer game than reaching a top level playing the violin, because frankly the former is not only more creative but also more career-enhancing.

Session musicians earn a shit load

My friends brother plays sax he only needs to work a few times a year to darn what it takes my dh all year to earn

He tours with really famous people and always a fancy parties looks like a hoot and he always has a very petty girlfriends apperntly women still love a sax player

pleasemothermay there is a reason women love sax players... Circular breathing one of the many reasons I married one Sorry for the wine soaked overshare!

I'm a circular breather too.

Lol.

Sometimes teenagers play music because they want to. Are there really parents out there strong-arming their teenagers into pursuing music?

My DD showed no real interest in music until she was 12, she's now a multi-instrumentalist (four at the last count) and songwriter with some performing and recording experience. I dare say she will never make any money out of it but that's not the point.

Curiously she's taken the opposite direction from most young musicians, having started out playing pop/rock music then moving onto to jazz guitar and sax, and most recently classical piano.

Women love sax players, my dh has various items of underwear thrown at him and his work is varied taking him all over the world.

Yes, circular breathing is brilliant but not very attractive.

Hi Misti
i've name changed, I've heard your dd play, I wouldn't write her off for making a ton of money in the future.
Mine, is cb now and looks like a fish and has added bari to sop, alto, and tenor. Needs a flute for next year, and the insurances.
It's certainly not the odd £10 anymore

Mmmmm I wonder what Mozart would say to that if he was still alive hahaha!!

Related to a professional musician and he earns a huge amount! Tours with singers\bands and performs in west end shows etc. Does very well for himself and more importantly absolutely loves his job.

I think the benefits have been well thought out by many.
www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-athletes-way/201503/10-ways-musical-training-boosts-brain-power

"Are there really parents out there strong-arming their teenagers into pursuing music?"

Oh yes, that's often how it works for piano lessons (at least it was in my day) and then the constant requirement to practise, practise, practise...
It's a compulsory subject at school for certain age groups.

I can see parents strong arming their young children into regular musical instrument practice. But teenagers?!

In your first post OP you alluded to the potentially poor salaries musicians might earn. You have discussed class in later posts.

My observation is about sport, rather than music. My ultra MC cousin wouldn't allow her DS to do sport at university "because their wasn't enough money in it". He was good at, and passionate about sport, but wassteered towards a professional career.

There is a certain type of MC parent who will not countenance "unacceptable" careers. To me, this is the issue.

roundabout - sorry, the compulsory piano lessons I was thinking of was for children. My other bugbear was that I took music as an option at school and was never discouraged. I was definitely a teenager then.

"There is a certain type of MC parent who will not countenance "unacceptable" careers. To me, this is the issue."

Wasn't that a joke on Goodness Gracious Me? That Indian parents pushed their children into law, business and accounting and they never did English Literature or something.

I think you think parents who encourage classical i nstruments are snooty and above themselves that is how you come across playing/learning an instrument is theraputic and for enjoyment its an extra string to a childs bow doesnt mean they want to be a professional musician. Fwiw my dd has an audio/music production degree jobs are like hens teeth and she has since retrained

roundabout

Yes, when the children become teens the mc will still make them practice and quite often do this for the UCAS points and the teens future cv.
It's all about getting a grade 8 on the cv, or gaining a scholarship/bursary to private school.
It's very rarely something that came from the child and was completely child led.
I have seen it a lot until dd went to specialist music school, all the groups and ensembles outside our LA were like this, quite laughable to see Tarquin and Adastra with their sullen faces being bribed and/or cajoled into attending, taking exams and of course the reports and requested advice about practice. I was just as to why the parents were doing this to their children.

Does the mc mean the middle-class?

Unfortunately, because music education is not seen as a priority in the UK, (because it does not make money?), any child being given music lessons is more likely to be middle-class.

It is difficult to practice, just as it is difficult to get home-work done. To the same extent parents may be encouraging or persuading their children to do this difficult music practice, they are also encouraging their children to work hard at their other subjects too. That does not mean the children do not genuinely enjoy music, especially when they are able to perform it well and get a chance to. Needing to practice does not mean it is not enjoyable per se.

I haven't rtwt - but what an emotive subject.
Dh and I love music, we have passed on our passion to our dcs who take lessons in vocals and piano - these lessons were requested by our dcs, they wanted to learn but they do not do any exams, they learn for pleasure and they practice frequently without reminders. I believe in encouraging dcs to pursue their interests rather than forcing these things on them. Music is currently a pleasurable distraction from formal studies - they may decide to take it for GCSE/A'Level but I won't be encouraging them to do so - or discouraging them from doing so - learn for interest and pleasure if you can.
I'm not sure how well this will go down on their UCCA forms or with their future employers but that's not the whole point, I'm hoping it will result in a extra pastime that delivers happiness - and if it does it's money well spent.

Kind
Honestly, the mc families I came across weren't encouraging the children for the children's good.
Although, obviously some do it for their children and of course it may help them to be more disciplined to do homework.
Tbh, I don't see the point if they have to be encouraged to practice, or if practice is hard for them.
How can it be fun if you practice because your parents nag you? A hobby is supposed to be fun not something you are coerced into.
I once heard a woman tell her child it wouldn't be for much longer, all he had to do was pass his grade 5, then he could give up. I think he was having lessons for GCSE, how sad.

Bizarre. Surely it must be a minority who only do music because they are nagged into it once they get to their stroppy teenage years? That would have to be one hell of a lot of nagging - it's not a small commitment. I don't remember anyone in the orchestras I played in beyond about grade 4 or 5 who was playing a musical instrument through anything but active, personal choice (and the bands and orchestras I played in below that level were of a fairly crappy standard, so I can't imagine them being that impressive on a university application form!).

round

I know lots more, in fact many of those you describe, the ones who play for themselves because they want to. They are in the LA county orchestras and ensembles, practice because they want to and take parts home to learn/ take exams, because they want to.

I also know plenty of the others I described above, who do it to please Mummy and Daddy for their allowance. They aren't happy, interested or nice tbh. I suppose it depends on how much control the parents have and how much they want their dc to do it.

I have met and been involved with many ensembles, bands, orchestras and choirs with wc/mc backgrounds, some mixed, others predominantly mc, others mainly wc.
I am not saying that every middle class child fits that group, by any stretch and only speak as I have found.

Playing an instrument is difficult and you have to practice to be able to do it. That does not mean there is something wrong with it because you need to practise. It brings its own rewards and if anyone hates practising and does not get any reward from the feeling of being able to play a piece of music, they will usually just stop imo. Then, those who carry on, do so to varying degrees depending on how much time they want to devote to it, and do so because they do get pleasure from it.

I am genuinely confused about what class has got to do with it as such (other than that middle class parents may be more able to afford the lessons and perhaps are likely to think music is an important part of education)?

That's a shame, gillybeanz. I'm not surprised the children don't seem very nice if they are forced to do it!

Kind

It's as you have said, no confusion.
Only that ime I found that the mc children were more likely to continue through teenage years to please parents because quite often the parents are more invested than the children. I have rarely found this with wc children who play.
As a pp stated they usually give up county ensembles and groups if they aren't dedicated and parents tend not to pressurise, cajole or bribe them to continue.
To confuse you even more, the truly dedicated peers of my dd are practising for about 4 hours per day during the holidays. They have played a few pieces together this afternoon over skype, as they are nationwide and miss each other

I understand what you mean, Gilly.

I think I just had a different experience with the children I knew. Some of them were up to that level of four hours a day in the holidays and at weekends, others less so but still wanting to participate to some extent. Some did go on to make music their main degree or career of choice.

The general group of children we knew tended to be doing a lot of extra curricular activity - many hours per week on top of academic work - with a main bias, without it being exclusive, towards music, sport. drama or art.
They did work hard though.

"because music education is not seen as a priority in the UK"

What? Compared to where? How many other countries in the world have music as a compulsory school subject at certain ages? Lots of European countries don't have music at school at all, or not at secondary school.