To not understand why parents encourage music

[angryeumigrant]

when classical musicians earn so little.

The real money in music is in music production, composing, DJing, club nights, breakthrough bands, etc. Even that is not what it was in say the 1980s. There is next to no money in classical music performance.

I'll all for children learning to play an instrument for pleasure, read music, music theory, etc. However, I do wonder why parents would not actively discourage their children from spending too much time playing an instrument during GCSE / A-Levels. I think it's one of those things that is considered a "good thing" without it ever getting looked at objectively.

I would much rather my child was composing electronic music or sounding a computer game than reaching a top level playing the violin, because frankly the former is not only more creative but also more career-enhancing.

I read an article recently in which someone involved in recruiting / hiring people said that, presented with two otherwise similar CVs she would always choose the one that showed accomplishments in music because it meant the person had exhibited self discipline, perseverance, the ability to practice and so on.

Hear, hear, MrsDV. DS has a good friend with autism (didn't learn to speak till he was 5 or 6) who has nervous, stilted speech and fairly obviously out-of-kilter body language - but put the boy on a stage and let him sing, and he's a star. Beautiful, rich, expressive, well-trained tenor/musical theatre voice, and great comic timing. And his whole body language changes to go with it. Maybe there's something about the rhythm and flow, the whole pattern, that helps?

In his case, it's been enough to help him get university offers for combined English and Theatre courses, and it'll give him a ready-made social group once he gets there.

(Wish I could offer that to my own autistic son, but he won't tolerate the idea of performing in public.)

I'm not so sure about the great self-discipline, Sisyphus. My middle one has a jolly good grade 8 in one instrument and nearly there in another two, but is totally scatty and undisciplined!

Very very few of my contemporaries touched an instrument after the age of 22.

That doesn't mean they won't ever do so again. After the age of 18 I rarely got my instrument out of its case. However, in my mid 40s I found an opportunity to start playing again. Through this I met lots of other adults in a similar position, i.e. returning after a long hiatus. It is a fantastic social thing even if you are nowhere near good enough to play professionally (and I certainly am not!)

I noticed nobody took me up on my suggestion that woodcarving and perhaps other physical crafts could be as beneficial as music.

• Woodcarving sounds a bit solitary to me, whereas music offers more possibilities for a social life.
• The output from practising music while you are not very good is transient, but with woodcarving you are left with lumps of malformed wood hanging about the place.

pensivepolly "My DH never learned to play or read music and he regrets it to this day."

Do you mind me asking how old he is Polly?

This is how my DH used to think. He often said how he wished he had learnt the saxophone. Eventually I persuaded him to give it a go. At 50. He rented an instrument for the first three months to see how he got on with it and then bought his own.

When he started he had never played anything and couldn't read music. He is now in his late 50s, plays regularly in a local band and is working towards his Grade 5 Practical and Grade 6 Theory (he passed Grade 5 theory with flying colours last year)

Tell your DH it is never too late!!

And your dc won't be able to embarrass your dgc in the dad band or mum orchestra when the time comes . What a wasted opportunity, the summer fair wouldn't be the same without!

So many positives and no negatives, I teach music privately, along side my "day job" and if I choose to do this full time, it would be a relatively well paid career. As a musician I play and sing in very good amateur groups, with many performing opportunities. Two of my adult children play to an ok standard, as just dabbled as children, despite gentle encouragement. My DD however wishes she played the piano ( time didn't allow, between dancing etc), and she is about to embark on a 3 year musical theatre degree, her earning potential is uncertain in this area, but I wholeheartedly support her. The joy performing music brings is beyond words, I can't begin to put it into words.

Set against 5foot5s admirable DH, I was surprised to discover when my DD started to lean an instrument that I had forgotten how to read music. I knew the symbols but damned if I knew which line on a stave was which note. Turns out it's not like riding a bike.

This was probably because I couldn't keep my violin when I stopped lessons (they operated a sort of lease system). My DD quit lessons after grade 3 flute, but she still gets it out and plays a bit for fun to avoid repeating my misfortune!

OP you are exhausting! Ultimately, if a child enjoys making music, whether it be classically, digitally etc then why would you ever discourage it? Your comment about money is ridiculous...not everything is about money. Sometimes people do things for love, passion and personal enrichment.

It's pure joy. The piano is attractive, too and one more surface to park the gin bottle on.

I agree OP that you're exhausting. The point of an instrument is for its beauty, and learning to stay the course along the way.

Because it's a lovely hobby and skill to have even if you never earn anything from it. It's a great way to relax and get your feelings out.

I know a lot of adults who really wish they'd learned an instrument

And yes, tutoring an instrument can bring in a decent hourly rate once you've got your business established. And it's brilliant TBH. I just love teaching, I get a real buzz from it when my pupils learn something new, seeing their enthusiasm. :)

Turns out it's not like riding a bike.

ErrolTheDragon it is a litle bit! Just needs some time to get back into it. I stopped playing for like 6 years over uni and when I first started work - was very rusty when I picked it back up and couldn't sight read for toffee but you can get it back.

Errol, I have a guilty moment every time I have to think hard about E versus F on the flute. Luckily my fingers mostly get to it without bothering to consult my brain.

(I'm an adult beginner. DH learnt music as a child, and plays with loads of local theatre groups, orchestras and choirs - it's his main social life.)

When I was a kid I had riding lessons, sailing lessons, tennis lessons, ballet lessons and piano and clarinet lessons.

None of them have ever been very useful in the work place but they've all made my life better, and music the most of all. I'm 38, sing in a community choir and play in an amateur band. Great fun. Definitely better than coming home and playing with spreadsheets of an evening. My dad, as a note, is in his seventies and still plays his clarinet.

As a note, I've also never made any money or for a promotion at work for knowing how to make a decent gin cocktail but I consider that to also be one of my better life skills.

I think this thread has drifted off-topic. There is nothing wrong with any child spending several hours a week on music, if they want to. The question is why do some parents think their children should do it, in cases where it makes the children as miserable as extra maths or foreign language lessons would do. With the latter we can see why the parents think the gain might be worth the pain, but with music the only gain is going to be the pleasure of the skill itself. That gain is probably never going to arrive if the learner isn't enthusiastic.

I remember thinking along similar lines to OP when "tiger mother" first made the news. I wondered why she thought it was worth yelling at her children to practise music. Unlike almost everything else you might force encourage children to study, there's no point to studying music if they don't enjoy it.

I introduced my children to music because I like playing the piano. Lots of adults still play for pleasure so I just think it's normal. In fact in my extended family nearly all play something. At Christmas we get round the piano with assorted instruments and enjoy playing together.

Lots play in bands, choirs etc. It's fun!
Most of us also can program quite happily too!

We live in an ex council house and drive a car worth about 200 quid but DS1 aged ten is obsessed with making electronic music on a little old handheld computer called an Axim. I haven't encouraged him, in fact I usually tell him to turn it down or off 😀 Anyway, his new dream is to go to uni to study music production which is thus encouraging him to work harder in his other lessons so it had actually been beneficial for him. Also, I don't know much about these things but friends have looked at what he is doing and say it is brilliant, especially as he has taught himself all the coding skills necessary. He is dyspraxic and has epilepsy so I am really proud of how he had achieved all of it by himself.

Did the OP say something upthread about increased govt arts funding? Hahahahahaha.

I totally agree with MrsD, but in our case it was reversed.
Our dc was identified gifted in music from very early age, however is currently being assessed for learning and mh disabilities.

The music certainly helps to minimise some of the mh issues and with strategies I know the learning difficulties will improve too.

Music has great potential to help those who are less able, for whatever reason.

The question is why do some parents think their children should do it, in cases where it makes the children as miserable as extra maths or foreign language lessons would do

Oh, I don't think they should. But I do believe in seeing out commitments eg until the end of the school year that expensive lessons have been paid for. Also I probably wouldn't be impressed with a change in heart if an expensive instrument had been purchased like a piano!

5foot5- I wonder if it was your DH we met, does he do Trinity?
When DD was warming up for her grade 4 piano, a gentleman in his fifties came in from his sax exam, to put his instrument away. He was so lovely and complementary about her playing, it really gave her a boost!

You're talking bollocks OP.

I was trying to think of a succinct way of saying what I wanted to say, but I notice that another poster has beaten me to it

People don't play classical instruments (or encourage their dc to do so) because it is perceived as a 'middle class' thing to do. They play because they enjoy it, and most people aren't considering it as a career anyway. If they are, why shouldn't they?

Oh and by the way OP, nobody is influenced by whether or not the upper classes are interested in music, classical or otherwise. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that nobody gives a flying toss what they think or what you think either .