To get boot camp on my children. Enough is enough.

[fruitstick]

I'm tired of being treated like a doormat by my children.

I trying to make them happy but actually I'm just making them spoilt and entitled.

I have 2 DC aged 10 & 7. They argue with me about everything. If I ask them to do something they whinge and complain and refuse.

They are constantly moaning that something isn't good enough, they don't like dinner, I've bought the wrong something or other.

They both sulk if they don't get their own way.

I can't live like this anymore. They are making me utterly miserable.

They rarely do anything kind for me.

I want a happy home where everyone helps eachother and we have a lovely time. How on earth do I achieve it.

I need some help. DH says I need to be firmer with them and not let them get away with it. I've also pointed out that he needs to lead by example!

So firstly, what would you reasonably expect a 7 & 10 year old to do around the house without complaint or feeling like a workhouse.

Reading with interest as my two, dd1 in particular do zero to help around the house and refuse to when asked.when I ask again the response is that they strop.
It does make life a) hard, as im constantly picking up after them which is time consuming-I work full time and am a single mum and I am bloody tired and b) unpleasant-I'm sick of spending time arguing when we could be doing nice stuff instead.
I wish I had been stricter with them when they were young. They are now 9 and 10 and the 10 year old is very hormonal on top of everything else :(

If they make you mad, they know THEY are winning.

I think a family meeting about Attitude and behaviours might be called for.

Begin by everyone writing down 3 things that they want to happen which will change the family dynamics and make them, as individuals, happier.Then everyone should write down the 3 things that make them unhappy.

Before the meeting starts, you need to be very clear that everyone has the right to be listened to. You have to be very strong, to allow everyone to say exactly what they think without any body being defensive. It is best to hold this meeting away from the home environment so that nobody can strop off.

I would not make it specifically about chores. The purpose of the meeting is to create a happier family everybody. If you can get them to recognise that attitude and body language are as important as behaviour. Before the meeting think about your own body language. How do you speak and present yourself to them. Are you displaying body weariness, does your tone voice, when you ask them to do something, imply criticism or indicate that they wil not do it.

Sorry posted too soon. I bought a management training manual to help me with difficult members of staff. You know the ones. they do the job they are paid for, but somehow manage to disrupt the workforce and defy management. I found it really useful to manage my teens.

Do they get pocket money? Chores and pocket money is a really good idea, eg if they don't do all their chores or miss out a couple then the amount is reduced.

Other chores (clean bathroom is a good one) they can do this once a week on a rota etc... Or help unpack/help you with the shopping etc. the one helping with shopping gets a treat for doing this and being good if you're brave enough to take them both they both get a treat or if you just take one the other chooses a treat for the other one (if other one can't make it, football practice etc).

Something they especially want eg outside birthday and Christmas not bought with pocket money. Say they have to earn this by being good and if necessary star charts. If xxxx number of gold stars end of eg 1 month you will buy them the item.

You can work gold stars/pocket money etc into taking away privileges. Depends how strict you want to be but eg if stroppiness from one child (your son) re BBQ, pudding etc then he's denied 1 gold star etc.

All above worked for us as kids.

Friends have made a chart for their kitchen wall. It's like a board game, numbers 1-20 in a path, and she's quite artistic so she's illustrated it as well.

Small treats happen at 10, but there's a bigger reward at 20. Might be a cinema trip, might be a day out, could've anything really.

Each child has a laminated photo of themselves and they start at zero. Helping without complaining gets them moved up to 1, and so on. Anything utterly outrageous gets them bumped down a number. And when they both reach 20, they get the prize.

It seems to work really well for them; partly its competitive so if one sib is higher up than the other then it's additional motivation for the trailing one to catch up. But also nicely, it gets them working together a bit so if for eg one sib is at 20 and the other just needs to tidy a bedroom to be there too, the victorious one will often help out so they both get the reward sooner.

I have to be quick as doing the school run but put it in writing

My two have lists of what is expected of them so they can't say they forgot. In return for the "chores" and behaviour they get tv time/computer time etc

Also we a had a no complaint policy for dinner (this really only applied to Ds2 who moaned at everything) I told him it didn't change anything, this was dinner, eat it or don't eat it, up to him. I don't give him things he doesn't like just that one week he would eat it and the next week he wouldn't.

The back chatting is punished with time out. They get one warning then if they continue they are put in the dining room for the number of minutes old that they are.

I bet they don't back chat a teacher when told to do something.

hi. you say about no time to yourself in the evening and sound like you really need it.

i'd start with that personally. rethink bedtimes and set them earlier and say that at x time you will get into pjs brush your teeth and be in your rooms. it may be that that is earlier than they are ready to sleep but they can have a light on and read say but there is to be no more noise, no more demands etc after that time because you need them to settle and you need grown up time.

stick to that boundary and use it as a deterrent too - re: if you carry on like this you can go to your room at x time instead. having already enforced the new time and stuck to it they'll believe you.

emphasis that everyone has a right for home to be a place they can relax and have peace NOT have to deal with constant bickering or rudeness and that you cannot and will not go on like that.

use that x time you are in your room and that's that as your boundary that protects your right to be a bit of peace and space in the evening and threaten to make it earlier when they are not respecting that right.

then try and find some nice things for you to do that are destressing and peaceful when they do go to their rooms.

take care of yourself.

How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids will Talk will really help you.

I am a great fan of family meetings in order to cut through cycles of negative behaviour. Put the problem to them. Explain you need suggestions from everyone in order to solve the problem of moaning, sulking and non co-operation. Write down EVERYTHING they suggest and make some suggestions of your own. Discuss which ones you will take on board. I bet they will surprise you.

It's a good idea as others say to make them feel important. Sometimes let them choose what to have for dinner, BUT let them help prepare it too, can be as easy as grating cheese, chopping veggies (supervised of course), you could go as far as letting them choose the food for that meal in the supermarket.

On a daily basis chores are great but also eg if grandma is Coming for Sunday lunch - give them some chores, can they lay table, with cloth etc, kids love occasions.

I recall when I was about 6/7 one of my Brownie badges involved having someone over for tea, so I had to make sandwiches, bake fairy cakes, invite someone, be a hostess. I felt very important doing this though! It was all the more difficult for me as I was a shy, introverted child who had only 2 best friends and the girl I invited wasn't one of those (was from Brownie pack). And got my Hostess badge!

I agree with the family meeting and getting your dh on board.

Remind everyone that you're all a team and need to work together so you can all have a happy family life.
Discuss what chores they'll do but remind them of flexibility and sometimes they need to just help out.

Get them involved in menu planning. Mine will look through a recipe book and point out the things they like the look off with a post it note.

Pick your battles. If they are going to complain regardless of what you do then you only need to do the bare minimum- an example is with pudding. One offered, take it or leave it, nothing else offered if they strip. When they accept pudding (or not) without the strop then increase their choices. It doesn't take long for them to get the idea.
I used to tell mine that if they were going to argue with me no matter what I did then there was no point in me putting in the effort to do more.
As far as their bedrooms go, that is their space and they live in it as they see fit. The doors stay closed.
If they want clean clothes they put them to be washed.
Mine are older now and seem to be decent human beings so far

One mum I know who had three teenagers in the house used a pocket money account for them doing their share of the household responsibilities, like hoovering, tidying, clearing away, dishwasher etc. Every child had a set amount that would be theirs on Saturday morning. During the week anyone who declined to do their job or didn't get around to it when asked, the mum gave them a smile, got out her notebook and said no problem, you can pay your brother or sister or me to do it for you then, and an amount of their pocket money was deducted from their total for Saturday to pay someone else to cover that job for them. Say 50p off their £5 so their total dropped to £4.50. Siblings got first offer on doing the job and getting that pay added onto their account, if no takers than mum or dad did the job. Funnily enough siblings were often happy to do jobs someone else had refused in order to earn the extra. On Saturday morning the mum would check the 'accounts' and pay accordingly.

I struggle with this being a lp. My mum undermines me so any strict ground rules are ignored, she let's them have Hudls at the table FFS. DS even said the other day that "grandma is in charge" (she does school pick up twice a week). Somehow I've got to regain control this summer.

I had similar issues. Finally, one day, I broke down in tears and had a rant (partly explained by being depressive at the time). I did the kid thing and fled to my room, leaving shocked silence behind. After a bit, and I had calmed down, I went down and we had a family conference. I explained how put upon I was feeling and told them that I needed their help. We drew up a list of all the chores that needed to be done daily (emptying dishwasher, filling it again, clearing table, laying table, washing, laundry, general tidy helper etc) and some that needed doing less often (hoovering some bits of house etc). Then we divided them up between us, equally. We did the same with suggestions for meals - they put forward their likes and dislikes and I did mine. We discussed some where we didn't like and wouldn't eat some choices and agreed that these would only be served when the disliker wasn't there. We've done this at the beginning of every summer holidays since, with me reminding them how I feel about being a dogsbody, and to do the kids justice, it has worked so far. I think the shock of them seeing me really upset at their behaviour helped them understand that I am human too and do not exist to serve them. My mental health has also improved. Good luck, OP!

OP please do take the advice above to read "How to talk...".

It's important that any "regime" doesn't require much effort to administer. Marbles in jars and 20p docked from pocket money always look like a bit of a faff. But then one of my children is not at all motivated by money, and the other is a master at pretending he doesn't care, so our attempt to use pocket money as a motivator failed dismally. Maybe when they are older (9 and 7 now). Mine are pretty ok at doing chores, it's more the self management things like emptying bags we struggle with.

Meglet that sounds very hard. I can imagine I'd feel similarly undermined from my mum. Would it help to give up on the idea of "one rule for all"? Grandma might have different rules on her watch, that's up to her, grandparents indulge their grandchildren the world over, but that laxness does not apply on your watch. Children cope very well with different sets of rules - childminder/nursery vs home, school vs home etc. You could talk about how different roles were in Granny's day if you like - my kids know their grandad never cooks a meal or does the tiniest bit of housework and hopefully they know that is not something to aspire to these days.

Reading with interest. Some great tips here.

I need to get my family in order and have set myself the goal of having this sorted over the summer holidays. I'm in a slightly unusual situation since DH used to be a SAHP and did the majority of the household chores without asking DC to do anything. Obviously DC are a bit older now, and I am the one at home now so there has been quite a bit of change in the family dynamic.

The main issues I struggle with are:

1. Oldest is very studious and does many after school activities, so once she is home and has finished homework she is often tired (not to mention hormonal as a pre-teen). I don't want to put too much pressure on her and am proud of how well she does at school and the commitment she puts in to her hobbies. However, I don't think it's too much to ask her to put her clothes (washed and ironed by me) away or to keep her room tidy. We frequently get involved in arguments about this- I think I might try OldMa's suggestion of pocket money at the end of the week based on jobs done (so no arguments about doing chores, just no reward given).
2. Youngest does not seem motivated by any form of reward once he has decided that he does not want to do something. For example, I ask that he puts his shoes in a basket by the door and coat on a hook when he gets in from school. Sometimes (OK more than half the time) he will refuse and say I should do it as he's tired/has a fake injury/wants to get a toy (delete as appropriate). I have tried reward charts/marbles etc to reward when he does do these things but it does not seem to have any effect- any ideas?
3. Although there are some jobs that we could decide in advance are allocated to each member of the family (I will do this) there are times when I would like the DC to do something that I had not foreseen eg. moving toys that they have left on the stairs so that no-one trips on them. the general response to this is 'I'm just [whatever they are about to do that they think is more interesting] which I translate as 'No'. I get the point that it is best to give a choice of when to do something but with mine there tends to be a string of reasons for delay until eventually I end up either doing it myself or nagging them to do it immediately. Any ideas on how I can avoid this?

First step is to get in 'the zone'. They will try to wear you down. So be strong and then get your plan into action

Chunky (please get another username!) that all sounds v familiar!

(3) DS often asks if he can go out to play, put the tv on, play on the ipad. My answer is often "yes you may... once you have ". I think once they are in the habit of doing these little things when they actually want the ipad, it's less of a leap to do it when asked directly.

Think we did similar on shoes and coats. When you've put away your things, then you may get yourself a snack. But I take your point, DS would prob decide he didn't want a snack anyway. He is a total ipad addict but once gave it up for a whole month to prove a point. At 6!

Maybe one last explanation of what you'd like to achieve - a happy harmonious home, etc then sit down with them and draw up very short house rules with their input? They may feel empowered by having a say and, therefore, more motivated to make it work? It may be worth a try...

I'd add, start with the biggies for you - backchat and general good manners, gratitude, participating in the running of the household as appropriate.

We are quite strict. Have always been. My kids same age as yours would no more backchat us or any other adult than fly to the moon. You need to row it back and fast. This making them happy thing needs to stop.

We are often told how "lucky" we are that our kids are well mannered and nice to be around. I get compliments after play dates.

I am often horrified at how other parents (friends who are lovely parents and like minded in so many other ways) allow their DC to speak to them. One other family in our group have similar approach to us. Funnily enough their DC are universally acknowledged to be delightful too. They are also viewed as "lucky".

I feel a bit stronger today, thank you.

They are good kids deep down but I do need to get a handle on them and the summer holidays seem a good place to start.

We are all tired and grumpy. I'm having treatment for anxiety at the moment and it feels like this is part of the process.

The need to stop being anxious that my children will grow up damaged in some way is my starting point.

fruitstick....really feel for you....they wear you down.

Are you well and ok in yourself?

Try to get some time for you....time out, a massage,nails,a walk...whatever you enjoy. This serves 2 purposes one,it is fun for you and two it demonstrates " I am important"

You say they are spoilt....what is the bigger picture...what support do you have?