DH said "oh look at you saying anything to justify your existence"

[dArtagnansCrumpet]

AIBU to be upset?

I'm a sahm to a 2 and 3 year old, 3 year old has SN. Husband works full time.

I suffer from low self confidence, self esteem and possibly depression which DH knows.

This is the conversation. I was tidying up before youngest went to bed, DH was on his phone. I said "don't you help will you" in a jokey voice. He said "I'm busy entertaining our daughter". Me: "I always manage to tidy and entertain her". Him: "Well usually I do help tidy yesterday I hoovered and tidied" (he did Hoover but i tidied again before youngest went to bed as he sat and watched me). Me: "right ok even though I tidied". Him: "oh look at you anything to justify your existence" . I left it at that clearly upset, i carried on cleaning and tidying around he followed me and said he was only joking and huffed and puffed. I stayed quiet as I could feel tears and didn't want to cry in front of dd. He then kept bringing dd to me and saying "oh look mummys ignoring me, mummys mad" several times. I explained I wasn't ignoring him and was carrying on tidying trying not to get into an argument. He half apologised about 10 minutes later "if he upset me".

Maybe I'm overreacting. I already struggle with self worth and that comment made me feel like I was worthless and had no use. Aibu, shall I just get over it?

I do think you should do the majority of housework if your a sahm sorry. It's not fair to expect him to do half the share of housework and work full time(if it's full time).

Total bollocks. And illogical, since OP is working full time caring for two preschoolers, one with SN, but apparently this sort of work doesn't entitle her to a reduction in her share of the housework.

The thing that's bothered me most about what you've written OP is the digs about your bladder. For some reason that just sounds so awful. You've had two pregnancies fairly recently, in quick succession. As many of us could tell you, that tends to mean you need to pee more and can't wait as long. An effect you wrought on your body by having your children together, yet you're being criticised and blamed for what pregnancy has done to you. He apparently would prefer you to be uncomfortable and/or wet yourself in the car?

How come you get to stay at home until you find a job that you enjoy? Does your DH have this luxury, or does he have to go to work whether he likes it or not because he has a penis?? You need to sit down with him and talk about whether you both feel that the other is contributing in a fair way to the family. It might well be that he is feeling stressed at the fact that his is the only wage coming in. If that's the case, then its only fair that you find a job, even if it isn't your dream job. Most people don't have the luxury of being able to stay at home indefinitely.

Time you stopped justify your existence, by not doing his washing, cooking and cleaning.

Look after yourself and you children.

I'm better your self esteem and confidence would get better if you were to get rid of your husband.

If and when you return to work will he be taking days off to cover sickness and school holiday, not to mention school plays and other things that school like parents to be involved in.

Harsh, did you miss the fact that the OP's children are only 2 and 3? And one with SN? She's not exactly resting on her laurels.

I would think you had a point if they were both in full-time school.

Op I really feel for you. That comment from your DH was a very low blow indeed.

I think GDarling made a very good suggestion. Can you get some quotes from childminders /daycare options etc. Sit down and present these to him and ask him which option he would like to go for. Also get some quotes from cleaners to factor everything in cost-wise. Ask if he can enquire at work about greater flexibility to cover school holidays, sickness etc. Hopefully the "value" of all you do may start to dawn on him when he sees the monetary value of it on paper. Not to mention the extra hassle factor for him.

I'm a SAHM too but it only works if there is mutual respect between you. DH knows he would not be have been able to build up his companies and travel wherever at the drop off a hat if he was having to factor in my work commitments too. And neither if us wanted to involve childminders etc. DH does sod all in the way of housework, cooking etc, but he always tells me how grateful he is for what I do and so on. If he undermined me in any way, I would be off.

Couldn't not post. I promise you that you are not alone in feeling these feelings of low self confidence and depression - especially during the early years of parenthood. I felt exactly the same when my DD was a toddler, I felt so low all the time and generally worthless as a human being. But the truth is - although you can't see it now - is you have as much value and worth as everybody else. To your children you are their universe, there simply isn't anybody more important than you. It sounds as though you are doing an amazing job in difficult circumstances. I know so many women whose husbands have made similar digs at them which imply that their worth and value is related to how much money they do or don't bring into the family finances, and it has made them feel like absolute shit (some of them were in fact working but apparently still not doing / earning enough). You are obviously job hunting and I don't blame you for trying to find something you're suited to rather than the first thing that comes along. Your contribution to family life is all of the hard work you put into raising your children and running a household, which is just as valid and worthy as earning a wage! And if you do seek help for your PND please don't worry about 'troubling anyone', that wouldn't be the case at all. I hope you find a positive way forward.

Looking after children is a 24 hour responsibility, sometimes if they sleep well you get some of this time off.
He was wrong with his comments and also wrong not to take his share of the domestics. If stuff is being done you share if both there.
I can't understand this mine and yours contribution in this day and age, you just share the tasks until all is done, then you both have free time.

*Time you stopped justify your existence, by not doing his washing, cooking and cleaning.

Look after yourself and you children.*

Clutterbugsmum - what kind of attitude is that? I suppose he should only look after himself and the children, and not support the OP financially in any way?

This is meant to (thankfully!) a time of equality. Of course the OP should do more around the house than her DH. If the OP's DH is expected to do a lot of the housework when he comes in, does that mean that the OP should then work in the evenings and earn money for the household. That would be an "even split" of tasks.

The OP was spoiling for an argument, and knows she was unreasonable. Her DH shouldn't have risen to it, but he was clearly provoked. Plus it is good that he spends the time with his daughter in the evenings, as he misses out on that during the day, you know, in order to put food on the table and pay the bills!! It sounds like he chips in a lot at home, and so he should be cut some slack.

Sorry OP, I think you owe him a big apology!!

Oh my love, I've been there too - and still am to an extent. My husband is like yours with "jokey" insults - and I'm still trying to work out if it's a sense of humour thing or more conscious than that.

The talking through the children thing is a terrible thing to do and I think you need to discuss it with him - explain why it's so shit and then call him out on it every time he does it. Even if he doesn't get why it's crap he should still stop out of respect for you - if he doesn't then you might need to think again.

To be harsh I think that your jibes weren't a good idea - I do that stuff all the time and it's not constructive, I think it comes from lack of confidence in yourself and your existence - it's hard to say "I need you to do more" and bloody hell its provoking to be running around tidying up whilst they chill out - but upfront is the best option so everyone knows where they stand. It doesn't need to be loaded or impatient "please may you help me tidy?" should be fine. It is not an unreasonable request. I know it's difficult if he says he'll do it later -maybe then stay calm and say "okay, I'll do this room and shall I leave you the living room/kitchen" whatever. I don't know if that would work, I know my husband would then forget and then if I mentioned it again it might fall into the "nagging" territory - one of the shittiest words ever invented.

Sorry, that's not helpful but I just wanted to say I totally understand how it feels, how crap you can feel with small children and how isolated from your husband when they're like this.
Don't be ground down, don't feel it's you being unreasonable but try hard to be direct with requests. (I know how hard that can be).

Mitel, I agree that the majority of housework should fall to SAHMs but I don't think this encompasses quick tidy-ups etc at the weekend.

Should SAHMs provide all the weekday childcare, all the cleaning, tidying, laundry, cooking and admin of life? And those out at work only have to get themselves to work and back and play with the children? I really don't think that's a fair split.

*If i ask him to help hell always say I'm a minute or it never gets done

Another passive-aggressive trick, I'm afraid. *

See, I saw the opposite side of this because it's something I get all the time at home. I work full time and DH is SAHD. He'll ask for some help with something or let me know that I've dropped something or left something were the kids could get it. If I reply along he lines of the OPs DH that yep I'll be there in a minute etc, the my DH will give a big sigh and do it himself whilst loudly pointing out that he's doing it himself then, or like the OPs comment, 'don't help me then will you'.

It's like he never gives me chance to do it my way, it's not fast enough for him or done his way therefore is not good enough. Now to me that is emotional abuse as well.

Of course it's not, and it's particularly not fair when the SAHP is looking after two preschoolers, one with SN. With the best will in the world, that's unlikely to be conducive to anything other than meal prep and clean up, mopping up messes before anyone skids in them and laundry. It's also likely to mean the SAHP in question has to do the same tidying multiple times a day.

Of course it's great to have things worked out in a democratic fashion that both partners agree with. That would take good communication which this couple does not have (yet).

I would expect, however, that a husband whose wife has PND would not be too exacting about making sure she is doing her half exactly. She's ill. Of course, he'd have to recognise she is actually ill first. He actually thinks her working outside the home on top of her current workload is the answer!

This is why I think going to the GP will help, not only to get that very important treatment, but also an official diagnosis might help the OP's husband realise just what she is coping with. He might be more sympathetic that way.

Conversations with my dh, summarised:

Him: I want children

Me: Idon't know, I like my job but it doesn't pay enough for childcare

Him: I want children, you can be sahm

Ta dah, here's two children (like it was that easy!)

Him: Er, could you help me run my new business?

OK, here I am, dd in tow...have you ever tried to manage an office with a 7month old under your desk?

Him: Er, could you get a second job, we need the income?

Him: Er, you could get a third job, and it's not like you're busy now both DC are in school...

OK, here I go, super-job-getter on steroids, hunting down all those lovely term-time, school hours jobs. I now have four different low paying pt jobs including one evening . Go me.

Him: What do you mean I have to look after the dcs tonight?

It is possible that some people are never happy, even when you give them what they ask for!

OhGodWhat - your post made me laugh. You should start your own thread - "Conversation that led to me becoming a SAHM and/or less gainfully employed".

If his clothes are not in the wash basket, how do you know that they need washing?

If my DH are anywhere but in the basket I'd assume that they don't and so they wouldn't be done.....

I think it was a very spiteful remark, and I do know how you feel about things like that.

I don't think my DH particularly appreciated my years as a SAHM even though it was a joint decision due to the cost of childcare. He had a tendency to think that I could just magic further income out of thin air once the kids were at too. He also tends to live with his foot in his mouth and is always having to try and back out of stupid comments he has made, usually after a death stare from me.

The childcare issue meant that the shackles didn't really come off me until mine were secondary school age and no longer needed. It then took a couple of years searching and fending DH off with his "help"

DH would also want to direct me to unsuitable jobs. All he saw was money and I grew accustomed to having to shut him down if he started. It was totally exhausting.

Believe me, I know how exactly how this sort of thing makes you feel. For years I felt my marriage was hanging by a very thin thread. Comments were made to me that I wish I didn't remember, but I do and I will never forget. DH also wishes he had never made some of them too. If he starts about stuff now and how hard he is working etc. I round on him with a very sharp "DON'T START, SO AM I!" and he quietens down sheepishly.

I had a few low blows in my time too, though none quite as low as being asked to justify my existence. That would have been very degrading. It might just have tipped me over the edge into finally showing DH the door, and believe me there were times when that nearly happened.

Go to your GP. Get help for your PND. You are ill, your DH does not appreciate that either and he is behaving abysmally.

Spending time with his daughter. Hardly quality time if he is on phone.

I'm so sorry you're having a hard time

I agree that it was a nasty thing to say and would be a big deal for me to get over. A very big deal.

That said, you were needling him in a passive aggressive way that would make me want to lash out. I'm not saying it would be right. But I do think there's a difference between your DH coming out with that completely off his own bat and saying it in the context of you hinting that he's not doing enough to justify his existence.

But it's awful for you.

I agree that looking after small children is hard work, and there's nothing wrong with being a sahm. However, this has to take place by mutual consent - if one partner doesn't want to support the other financially, then they both have to work. Most people aren't able to afford to stay at home until the kids are in school, that's just the way it is.

Also, if you try to go back to work after 5 years out of the workplace it gets even harder, and then you get all the posts about "DH is making me get a job, isn't he cruel, I've been bringing up his kids for 5 years and I'm too good to work in Tesco and that's all I can get after selflessly giving up my career for him (totally ignoring the fact that he wanted me to go back to work after mat leave)". Not all men want the 50's setup - you've had 3 years off, and some people don't get anything like that amount of time. Even working part-time might make a difference.

I agree that looking after small children is hard work, and there's nothing wrong with being a sahm. However, this has to take place by mutual consent - if one partner doesn't want to support the other financially, then they both have to work. Most people aren't able to afford to stay at home until the kids are in school, that's just the way it is.

This presumes that both parents working will be more financially beneficial to the household than one working and one SAH though. There is no information from the OP to suggest this is so: the fact that she talks about going back to work isn't it. You simply cannot make an assumption like that.

I suspect that unless op has a very well paid job or free child care it is not necessarily likely to be that beneficial economically going back to work. Obviously it is beneficial to her career to go back sooner.

Sorry for the late response.

Id like to clear up the job situation. I used to work full time in an office position before dc and DH was a student. He found a job which is what he really wanted to do so I didn't go back and we moved 2 hours away so he could start on the career path. He's currently doing well at a company which he really enjoys working at and he fits in well.

To the poster who asked if he was emotionally unintelligent, yes I would say so. He has poor social skills as do most of his family.

I've also been applying for jobs that are not what I want to do just to get back out there, so far no luck. I feel so anxious and suffocated applying for jobs!

Portia, I've tried to ask once the kids are in bed if he can start on the kitchen and I'll pack the bags start hoovering and he makes fun of me and calls me project manager . You can't say anything without him disagreeing or him getting offended. I ask a question all I get is a clipped dunno or yeah or no. Then he complains I never talk to him! Yet anything I talk about is never good enough or he shuts it down iykwim. Oh I don't know.

I've tried to ask once the kids are in bed if he can start on the kitchen and I'll pack the bags start hoovering and he makes fun of me and calls me project manager sad. You can't say anything without him disagreeing or him getting offended. I ask a question all I get is a clipped dunno or yeah or no. Then he complains I never talk to him! Yet anything I talk about is never good enough or he shuts it down iykwim. Oh I don't know

Sounds like you can't do right for doing wrong!

It must grind you down a lot.

Have you seen your GP yet?

I think one of the problems is that if you don't have the same standards of cleanliness and tidiness as each other you'll find it hard to see eye to eye on this. Does he think that the toys need to be tidied away every day? Does he think that the hoovering needs to be done every day? If he doesn't see these things as necessary, then he'll view them as something you do because they make you happy and understandably he'll be irritated if you're cross that he's not helping. If he decided that the car needed cleaning inside and out every night, would you be happy to do half of it? Or would you think that it was unnecessary extra work?

If you don't have the same ideas as each other about housework then there are three options. Either persuade him why your way is correct so he'll want to help, or accept that the tidying is to please yourself in which case you should do it yourself, or compromise and do less tidying.