"I could never send my dcs to grammar school....

[winkywinkola]

...because I think it's unfair on all those children who can't get in because they couldn't afford tutoring for 11+. But I will send them to prep and boarding school."

I was a bit perplexed to hear this from a mum at the school gate. Aibu?

"What? No child has ever been bullied at a comprehensive for being a swot"
Of course they have. They have also been bullied for being a swot/thick at grammar schools too. Kids get bullied at schools that don't have an incredibly effective anti bullying policy. It is ridiculous to suggest that the bright child at a comprehensive is going to get bullied any more than any other child.

"Ds' school has a fee of £1500; no voluntary element there. Two missed payments and you are out (as per the contract)"
Is this a state school?

I've just spent £140 to kit my children out- uniform and PE kit which I'd have to buy for a comp,ditto a maths kit and scientific calculator.

Both of my dc's blazers alone were this price! I am gobsmacked that a uniform + PE could be as cheap as this, I would expect the comp/SM's uniform to be more than this.

I went to GS in the 80s and there was a fair mix of pupils. The uniform was a struggle for my family and probably put off other families from sending their children despite passing the 11+.

I've never paid the school fund thing for DS or DD both at local grammars. They ask for it and I ignore it. It sits around on Parentpay for a while and then disappears. For both schools, when we went for initial meetings they rambled on about upgrading sports facilities or the hockey pitch. We decided that that wouldn't be a priority for us so didn't bother. I have paid towards the school minibus as a one off but that's all. Have you actually signed an agreement that says they can chuck your DC out if you don't pay??? Surely they can't do that!

Confucius. Where I am, all secondary school DC need to be kitted out with uniform, sports kit etc. Whether grammar or comp. With friends with DC at 5 different schools it was all much of a muchness.

twowrongs but I bet it doesn't all have to be school logo'd and only available through one shop though. The comps round here all can be kitted out in a supermarket

"It is ridiculous to suggest that a bright child at a comprehensive is going to get bullied more than any other...'

Yes, because British comprehensives are such bastions of academic excellence and aspirations, and provide such fantastic schooling, that the UK is approximately 3 years behind state schools in the far East when it comes to maths and the sciences...and last time I checked the UK came behind Cuba in national literacy league tables.

It cost us the better part of £700 to kit a DD out for grammar school. Uniform can only be bought from one specific outlet, and even the sport socks are specified.

There are strict guidelines about coats and bags and shoes too.

It also costs us £34 (increasing to £45 in September) a week for their bus fare because we live just over the county boarder so they don't get a free bus pass.

I'm pretty sure the financial costs would deter some parents from sending them to the grammar.

YANBU. I'm fine with grammar schools, although I think the tests should be updated to find natural ability rather than advantageous tutoring.

At least the children from low-income families have a relatively fair chance to get a place at a grammar, which is rarely the case at independent schools.

marble but it's not a choice between 'natural ability' or 'advantageous tutoring'. The vast majority of grammar school pupils have plenty of natural ability and tutoring just taught them technique and timing.

They obviously have plenty of natural ability which is why they get such excellent GCSE and A Level results without needing any further tutoring.

Probably quite a lot of average children could tackle an 11+ paper, given a bit of tutoring and half a day to plod through the paper. Whereas, they're actually just given 30 seconds to complete each question in the test.

It's the speed with which they can work out the answer which makes all the difference.

As do the same children in comprehensive schools!

Sorry- that last post should have gone with this-
"They obviously have plenty of natural ability which is why they get such excellent GCSE and A Level results without needing any further tutoring"

Yes, but there just aren't that many highly academic children at UK comprehensives, are there? Sadly...

If there were, we wouldn't be 3 years behind the Far East in Maths and Science, or behind Cuba for literacy.

So there are coincidentally more clever children in grammar school areas? How does that work?

What a completely ridiculous statement MaQueen. So few of our children go to grammar schools because there are so few of them about.

In the county I have just left the state secondaries beat the fee paying schools hands down in results terms. No grammars in the traditional sense, a few private schools that still call themselves grammar.

I am flabbergasted that you think that.

And how come that wholly selective areas only do marginally better at GCSE than comparable comprehensive areas? Surely they should do massively better?

There was once a poster on here who was prepared to confront the elephant in the room and actually say what most grammar parents think- that she didn't want her children sharing a lunch queue with the sort of children who go to secondary moderns. I admired her for that honesty.

Grammar school fan and parent of two @ grammar !

However, i will have to say that MaQueen comment that ' there aren't many highly academic children at comprehensive schools' offensive and highly inaccurate, given that 88% of all England/Wales pupils are comprehensive educated.

The debate is whether the most academic children the top (25%) would be better served both academically and socially in a grammar school.

Interesting debate!

Dd was bullied at middle school for being a swot - going to grammar has been the best fit for her.

Her uniform was no more expensive than buying ds's new middle school uniform - which also has logoed shirts, special sports kit etc. Our grammar has no 'fees' to pay.

But MaQueen. Of course there are acad,it DC at comprehensive schools! How can you suggest otherwise??