AIBU to be worried - Reintroducing the Truck System for the unemployed in the UK

[nickymanchester]

It has been reported that the UK government is starting a small trial in Manchester to pay (what I presume is) Job Seekers Allowance to people in a brand new blockchain currency called "GovCoin" - similar to BitCoin.

And that what this "money" is spent on will be tracked by the government - initially, the tracking will be on a "voluntary" basis.

So instead of actually paying real money in to a person's bank account they will now provide them with a crypto-currency on their mobile phone which can only be used in certain retailers and where the government will be tracking what the money is spent on. I can well imagine where this will lead.

One of the main backers of this is Lord Hunt, who is the Minister for "Welfare Reform" - boy does that phrase ever put the fear of god into me. As an aside, Lord Hunt was the government minister who, in 2014, said that disabled people were "not worth" the minimum wage. He is also the person behind the move to Universal Credit that, while it may have very laudable aims in theory, in practice it has been a nightmare for many of the people on the receiving end of it.

This is a quote from one of the sources:-

GovCoin Systems tests blockchain-based platform for social welfare payments in UK

Speaking at the Payments Innovation Conference 2016 on 4 July, Minister for Welfare Reform at the Department for Work and Pensions Lord Freud highlighted the ongoing trial saying:

We have been working with GovCoin Systems (and their partners, Barclays, RWE npower and University College London) for this trial. Claimants are using an app on their phones through which they are receiving and spending their benefit payments. With their consent, their transactions are being recorded on a distributed ledger to support their financial management.

Jeremy Wilson, Vice Chairman, Corporate Banking at Barclays, explained that the initiative focuses on adding an additional layer of richer data and identity onto payments, so that a deeper and more effective relationship can be established between the government and claimants.

www.econotimes.com/GovCoin-Sy...s-in-UK-233316

There are many other sites reporting this as well which you can find through googling them, for example:-

www.cityam.com/245128/governm...ain-technology

www.fstech.co.uk/fst/GovCoin_...ents_Trial.php

So why the title of this post and why my concern? Well, at school, one of the A levels I studied was history and a major part of that was the Economic & Social History of Britain in the 18th and 19th Centuries (the other part was Britain and Her Relations with the World 1914-1945, not that anyone's interested). Anyway, the Truck System was an infamous form of payments that became widespread in the UK and led to a great deal of abuse.

While, currently, these are just trials that are happening at the moment, I really do see the awful potential to become a fully fledged Truck System where the state monitors exactly what unemployed people are spending their money on, where they spend it and eventually will be able to control these things. This bit is really scary:-

so that a deeper and more effective relationship can be established between the government and claimants.

AIBU to worry about where this might lead or is it just an example of how new technologies can help young unemployed people so that they don't have to worry about pesky little things like actual having some cash in their hand but have to have pay for a mobile phone in order to access their benefits?

Have you ever thought of going into politics, peachpudding? I sense some openings coming up somewhere to the right of IDS and you honestly don't need to know anything at all.

And. How are people saving up on a pittance. Do you actually live on this planet.

RedHareWithBlondeHair Sun 10-Jul-16 21:10:43
"But benefits should not be regarded as wages"

Good That means you will be against workfare!!!!!!!!!!

The lack of empathy from some posters is shocking. Let's just hope that you never need the benefit system... Far too many people in their smug little worlds.

what a ill though out plan, what I want to know is why is tax payers money being used by this idiot MP

If your able to save up for one beer in the evening then no, save up and get some education/training so you can get a job.

Lovely idea, peach Let's see - 63p a day. How much will my training cost, about £2k? That makes 3,174 days. 8 years and 8 months.

So by the time I've saved up all my beer money, I'll be 69.
If they haven't moved my pension age yet again, I'll be an OAP by then. But benefit rules will probably be applied to pensions before 2025 rolls around, so let's imagine I go on this course.
OK, so now I'm 70 with a new qualification.
My illness will have got much worse in the meantime.

Will there be a lot of employers gagging for staff who can't leave the house, fall unconscious without warning and are totally incontinent?
And are 70?

Apart from its sheer insanity, I'm sure it's a good plan. You'd be a real asset to our current government, they like idiotic plans like this.

I'm horrified at this idea.

Most of the people I come across on benefits are very good at budgeting, down to the last penny. They make money go far far further then I ever could. There are some that don't. A few might be feckless. Most have mental health or learning difficulties or an addiction.

I think the monitoring immoral.

Some posters have suggested only applying this to jobseekers (not those who are ill so get ESA or have children or low paid work and may get tax credits.)The idea is that everywhere will have universal credit so administering that, with cards for those job hunting and money for others would be very complex. In these roll out areas the only people that claim JSA are claiming based on National Insurance contributions so it would monitor those who have lost a job after working for two years. The government already finds benefit administration difficult - it seems crazy to add more to the IT systems.

Incredibly stupid plan, if it is a plan: it sounds more like a press release to whip up bad feeling against those on benefits. Again.

I started a thread about the pilot scheme for those claiming JSA to get their benefits on a card. This mirrored the existing scheme for asylum seekers refused their claims called the Azure card, which was introduced by New Labour, found to be against all sorts of common humanity govt policy, but which has repeatedly been reintroduced by several governments.

Really shocking how little concern there is for the basics of liberty and privacy. Just because my employer pays me does not mean they have the right to control everything I do: Likewise the government.

The government already finds benefit administration difficult

The estimated cost of UC has been increased to £15.8 billion. And it still isn't working.

And that's generously assuming one can every night garlic.

True, Dacre ... I lead a life of untold luxury on these here benefits, I can tell you!

Naturally

peach

I'm pretty sure that you have had this explained to you within the last week to 9 days.

You cannot just rock on up to a food bank. You need a professional referal usually given with a form that is signed by that person and gives a reason for issueing it.

The referer is expected to check as best as they can the reason and if found to be making inappropriate referrals can have their ability to be a signatory removed. They are also only allowed to issue 3 vouchers to the same household in any rolling 12 month period. They are not designed or set up for regular or long term food support to the same household.

I know this because I have been a signatory since the very first food bank started up in the UK and am currently a referral signatory of almost every single food bank in England.

yikes :(

It will be a nightmare. I have lived on a very low income before (and JSA IS a small amount, no matter what the papers say) and its pretty much impossible to do unless you shop smart. After paying gas/electric/water/tv license and buying my weekly bus card (that was needed for job search at the time) I was left with about 5-10 pound per week. I could make it work but generally this involved going into fruit shops and such just before they closed and stuff like that. I was pretty screwed if I needed anything new, charity shops it was...which I doubt will be included under this idea. It will be all morrisons and big name brands...

And this is only one problem I see on first thoughts..

i hate it when people say doctors, nurses etc are paid by the tax payer....of course they are but they WORK for it not get GIVEN it for doing nothing AND they also pay tax on that earning....dont even go there with the same argument as getting tax payers money from benefits!!!

I dont find it a coincidence that the decriminilization of the sex industry is on the cards either.

Its funny how benefits arent supposed to be wages when it comes to carers but suddenly then get classed as wages when it comes to workfare.

lemon people on jsa do not do nothing. They are expected to job search daily and apply for a certain number of jobs per week. They regularly attend full time courses and do hours of voluntary work. Many are forced to volunteer for up to 35 hours per week for their 71 ish quid. Hardly money for nothing!!

I would of loved this to have happened when I was child and my so called mother was claiming benefits.
She never paid the rent, had gas and electricity cut off regular, we were always hungry, dirty and unkemp. She always has fags, booze and no one gave a shit what she was spending the money on!

Yanbu.
I never bought fags or booze.
I wonder how i would pay for my mobile though? could hardly stop paying my contract and certainly essential for looking for work.
I certainly never did nothing either.
I was always applying for more jobs than my quota. ( just not the jobs the jobs the jobcenter were sending me, ones i could actually do).

Its funny how benefits arent supposed to be wages when it comes to carers but suddenly then get classed as wages when it comes to workfare.

--

Indeed...infact I notice in discussions like this, the majority who say 'go get a job' and such about people on JSA...are perfectly fine, even seem HAPPY in some cases, about jobseekers being forced onto workfare as 'at least they are earning their money' or something else ridiculous. Heres a novel idea...pay them a normal wage instead of getting them to work for less than is legal. Why should someone work for less than minimum wage just because they are desperate for a job...its bizarre :S