AIBU to be worried - Reintroducing the Truck System for the unemployed in the UK

[nickymanchester]

It has been reported that the UK government is starting a small trial in Manchester to pay (what I presume is) Job Seekers Allowance to people in a brand new blockchain currency called "GovCoin" - similar to BitCoin.

And that what this "money" is spent on will be tracked by the government - initially, the tracking will be on a "voluntary" basis.

So instead of actually paying real money in to a person's bank account they will now provide them with a crypto-currency on their mobile phone which can only be used in certain retailers and where the government will be tracking what the money is spent on. I can well imagine where this will lead.

One of the main backers of this is Lord Hunt, who is the Minister for "Welfare Reform" - boy does that phrase ever put the fear of god into me. As an aside, Lord Hunt was the government minister who, in 2014, said that disabled people were "not worth" the minimum wage. He is also the person behind the move to Universal Credit that, while it may have very laudable aims in theory, in practice it has been a nightmare for many of the people on the receiving end of it.

This is a quote from one of the sources:-

GovCoin Systems tests blockchain-based platform for social welfare payments in UK

Speaking at the Payments Innovation Conference 2016 on 4 July, Minister for Welfare Reform at the Department for Work and Pensions Lord Freud highlighted the ongoing trial saying:

We have been working with GovCoin Systems (and their partners, Barclays, RWE npower and University College London) for this trial. Claimants are using an app on their phones through which they are receiving and spending their benefit payments. With their consent, their transactions are being recorded on a distributed ledger to support their financial management.

Jeremy Wilson, Vice Chairman, Corporate Banking at Barclays, explained that the initiative focuses on adding an additional layer of richer data and identity onto payments, so that a deeper and more effective relationship can be established between the government and claimants.

www.econotimes.com/GovCoin-Sy...s-in-UK-233316

There are many other sites reporting this as well which you can find through googling them, for example:-

www.cityam.com/245128/governm...ain-technology

www.fstech.co.uk/fst/GovCoin_...ents_Trial.php

So why the title of this post and why my concern? Well, at school, one of the A levels I studied was history and a major part of that was the Economic & Social History of Britain in the 18th and 19th Centuries (the other part was Britain and Her Relations with the World 1914-1945, not that anyone's interested). Anyway, the Truck System was an infamous form of payments that became widespread in the UK and led to a great deal of abuse.

While, currently, these are just trials that are happening at the moment, I really do see the awful potential to become a fully fledged Truck System where the state monitors exactly what unemployed people are spending their money on, where they spend it and eventually will be able to control these things. This bit is really scary:-

so that a deeper and more effective relationship can be established between the government and claimants.

AIBU to worry about where this might lead or is it just an example of how new technologies can help young unemployed people so that they don't have to worry about pesky little things like actual having some cash in their hand but have to have pay for a mobile phone in order to access their benefits?

It's a completely vile idea. No choice of switching electricity provider, no choice where you buy your food. In rural areas probably a terrible treck on the bus miles away to the accredited store as your local ones might not do it. No money to buy clothes on eBay or the charity shops as others have said above, and yes universal credit is set to replace tax credits so theoretically all low income families effected. Also lets everyone know you are on benefits every time you make a purchase.

This is really worrying. I hope there are some sensible, sensitive and loud voices in Parliament to stop this.

Horrible idea.

I don't drink or smoke and I don't buy anything illegal or something I'd be embarrassed to pay for at a till, as a grown woman I don't want my life or my families lives analysed/scrutinised/deemed not good enough through what I buy. I'll make my own choices in this democratic country

Every time they consulted on the matter as far as I'm aware the main response was negitive.

I'm surprised that they have piloted it.

Fuck this is reprehensible. So many shades of wrong it's difficult to know where to start.

God I hate this country right now.

What an awful idea. It's very concerning. Why don't we make all the poor people live in the same streets and wear an easily identifiable uniform while we're at it. If they get into debt they can move into a special housing scheme and work to pay off their debts...

Utterly dehumanising.

Horrible, absolutely horrible idea. De-humanizing those who rely on benefits for whatever reason. If you think people on benefits are living such a fantastic life then go on benefits yourself. It's a nightmare. Anyone who supports this is a heartless bastard. I'm not on ebenfits myself but I have been and it was already hard enough without this added on.

Maybe we should have MPs paid in the same way?

Just so that we can "support their financial management" of course...

I can't see the problem with the state keeping an eye on where the taxpayers money is going as long as all shops took payment. I think it would encourage people to feed themselves properly. Unemployment benefit is to cloth, feed and house people, not to pay for booze, fags and scratch cards. And don't tell me some people on benefits don't buy these products often as a priority because I know they do. I used to work in a post office and one mother spent £35 of her benefits on the lottery every week. Some people do need supportive guidance.

Do you know how many people on the breadline rely on market stalls?

I don't drink or smoke and I don't buy anything illegal or something I'd be embarrassed to pay for at a till, as a grown woman I don't want my life or my families lives analysed/scrutinised/deemed not good enough through what I buy. I'll make my own choices in this democratic country

MunchMunch posted this earlier in the thread - this is the crux of it for me - and even if the claimants do buy fags or booze with it, it makes no difference.

It's just not human to exert this sort of control over people.

Horrific idea.

And gumtree, car boot sales, FB selling pages, small ads....

What are they supposed to do if their cooker breaks or the DC need new shoes?

Having lived in a housing association estate where there were a lot of people not in employment, i can see why some people might think that this is a good idea.

A large number of my former neighbours seemed to spend a lot of money on alcohol, tobacco, and satellite TV subscriptions...

But as others have pointed out, paying for energy needs, second hand clothes/furniture, and other frugal ways of living could be unavailable too. Not to mention the anti competitive nature of some systems like these.

Seems like it often costs more to be poor, ironically.

^Maybe we should have MPs paid in the same way?

Just so that we can "support their financial management" of course...^

YY Bert, it's public money after all...

The ones that need supportive guidance could get that then...this is not supportive guidance by any description, and people who are making decent choices will still be monitored.

I tried to claim JSA this year and was treated like a criminal.
The 'claimant commitment' I had to agree to was like being read my rights.

Fucking scary, as someone on benefits this scares the shit out of me.

Me, too.

I buy fags and booze. I never go out socially, never travel anywhere, have no car and am a bloody genius bargain finder.

Why should I not have these very basic choices on how to spend my insurance money?

it's not 'tax payers money' it's THEIR money - being unemployed isn't a crime - you can't take away peoples autonomy just being out of work ffs

I can't see the problem with the state keeping an eye on where the taxpayers money is going as long as all shops took payment

Even if they did - unlikely - would all schools, all busses, all market stalls - all businesses that don't have shops - gas/ele phone companies, internet companies or insurance companies - if you have contents/house insurance that need to be kept going in case something happens or car insurance if rural might need car to function.

If everyone took them would there be greater charges for services or goods for inconvenience of dealing with the scheme?

Plus anyone desperate for booze or scratch cards is going to find some kind of black market exchange - possibly buying stuff then swapping for less money.

It gives the illusion of knowing here money is being spent while also bring a whole lot of restrictions to people who already manage their money well.

Well like I say on every thread about the government.
Someone voted these muppets in. Too late to be moaning now.
However that's not to say. I don't think it's a utter disgrace because it is. There's no law to say what JSA can and can't be spent on.
People pissing all their money up on a Friday after they get their Payment is immoral but immoral doesn't always = Illegal.
I see the first reply a benefits basher jumped in going on about incentives.
You can give people all the incentives and threats in the world, but the jobs and opportunities have to be there.

YANBU, that is absolutely outrageous. I can't believe what this country has become.

Utterly terrible plan. People need good self esteem and confidence to get a job (often the mental health side of things is overlooked). This would rob people of agency and dignity. If you treat people like untrustworthy criminals, they behave like that. Just ask any teacher....

I disagree Ghost, I am happy to support people that need benefits but why should they spend the money on non-essentials such as SKY and fags and booze? Its not 'THEIR' money, its everyone who pays taxes money. If your autonomy has lead to you being unemployed and choosing to spend your money like that then maybe not everyone deserves or is benefited by their own self governance?

Indeed. It scares me that we are, by stealth, going back to the Victorian era when phrases like " deserving" and "un-deserving" poor were bandied about. We have already kind of accepted casual racism against " immigrants"- What's next?? Workhouses??

If this is the type of state unemployment cover I'm going to have, I'm tempted to withhold my NICs, TBH.

It's one of those ideas that on paper sounds good/plausible and so on but the reality...

Makes the poor and suffering even worse off and the scapegoat of society

Anyone who has DC now needs to realise that your DC are going to be your responsibility for life unless they become independent and are able to work etc. the future is pretty bleak for the working class