AIBU to be worried - Reintroducing the Truck System for the unemployed in the UK

[nickymanchester]

It has been reported that the UK government is starting a small trial in Manchester to pay (what I presume is) Job Seekers Allowance to people in a brand new blockchain currency called "GovCoin" - similar to BitCoin.

And that what this "money" is spent on will be tracked by the government - initially, the tracking will be on a "voluntary" basis.

So instead of actually paying real money in to a person's bank account they will now provide them with a crypto-currency on their mobile phone which can only be used in certain retailers and where the government will be tracking what the money is spent on. I can well imagine where this will lead.

One of the main backers of this is Lord Hunt, who is the Minister for "Welfare Reform" - boy does that phrase ever put the fear of god into me. As an aside, Lord Hunt was the government minister who, in 2014, said that disabled people were "not worth" the minimum wage. He is also the person behind the move to Universal Credit that, while it may have very laudable aims in theory, in practice it has been a nightmare for many of the people on the receiving end of it.

This is a quote from one of the sources:-

GovCoin Systems tests blockchain-based platform for social welfare payments in UK

Speaking at the Payments Innovation Conference 2016 on 4 July, Minister for Welfare Reform at the Department for Work and Pensions Lord Freud highlighted the ongoing trial saying:

We have been working with GovCoin Systems (and their partners, Barclays, RWE npower and University College London) for this trial. Claimants are using an app on their phones through which they are receiving and spending their benefit payments. With their consent, their transactions are being recorded on a distributed ledger to support their financial management.

Jeremy Wilson, Vice Chairman, Corporate Banking at Barclays, explained that the initiative focuses on adding an additional layer of richer data and identity onto payments, so that a deeper and more effective relationship can be established between the government and claimants.

www.econotimes.com/GovCoin-Sy...s-in-UK-233316

There are many other sites reporting this as well which you can find through googling them, for example:-

www.cityam.com/245128/governm...ain-technology

www.fstech.co.uk/fst/GovCoin_...ents_Trial.php

So why the title of this post and why my concern? Well, at school, one of the A levels I studied was history and a major part of that was the Economic & Social History of Britain in the 18th and 19th Centuries (the other part was Britain and Her Relations with the World 1914-1945, not that anyone's interested). Anyway, the Truck System was an infamous form of payments that became widespread in the UK and led to a great deal of abuse.

While, currently, these are just trials that are happening at the moment, I really do see the awful potential to become a fully fledged Truck System where the state monitors exactly what unemployed people are spending their money on, where they spend it and eventually will be able to control these things. This bit is really scary:-

so that a deeper and more effective relationship can be established between the government and claimants.

AIBU to worry about where this might lead or is it just an example of how new technologies can help young unemployed people so that they don't have to worry about pesky little things like actual having some cash in their hand but have to have pay for a mobile phone in order to access their benefits?

I personally like the idea but I do think it be limited to people who are known not to be good with me
For example
Someone who has been jailed for drugs, to help them stay clean and with the right support it may help them too.
Alcoholic's
People who aren't willing to go on courses to find work
People who are running up debts and need help to get that under control.

I do think that it could work, but the support will need to will there for people who need it. To help feed the family, to learn money management, so they can provide food (obviously with debts been sorted out first)

Absolutely Rufus

It's a cruel and terrible scheme, and I'm shocked at the posters on here who think it's ok, and even more shocked at their 'reasoning.'

Having some jobsworth no life fucking loser tell you that the pack of jammy dodgers you bought aren't a fucking essential

Blimey... Sorry to upset everyone. I honestly think a lot of people would share my view that spending benefits on the lotto is not right. People do gamble their JSA away, they do by fags before food, this could stop that, thats what I'm saying. If you spend money on food and the odd understandable treat you have nothing to fear from this.

It wouldnt stay like that tweed

Optional in pilot. If introduced won't be long before you can be sanctioned for not participating.

The government are clearly not interested in helping people manage their money though. I used to work teaching financial capability, until the Tories got in and cut the funding for my project and all of the other similar projects I was aware of. This is just another attack on benefit claimants.

Rufus you will need a phone to participate. Something which is unaffordable for many on Jsa.

first

You mean well but you are just not getting this

You dont think it should be spent on fags or gambling fair enough

Jo bloggs over there thinks that it should be only spent on healthy food...so no chocolate or biscuits for the kids....no thats the worng use of taxpayers money

And the jobsworth over there doesnt think it should be spent on entertainment as thats a non essential

highland

Thats how stupid it all is isnt it

So do you think people selling 2ND hand on facebook or charity shops will accept this system first. Single people especially on benefits cannot afford to buy clothes new for example. O and I don't think my sister buys lotto tickets anymore but used to spend £1 per week. Is that really so bad especially as she used to win at times?

When I was on benefits I wouldn't do my weekly shop in on shop. I went to at least 3 maybe 4 including the market. Some market stalls didn't even take healthy start vouchers even though the stalls are cheaper - get more fruit and veg on the voucher than tesco!

Would weigh and save/bulk places take this type of cash?
Would I be penalised for going into primark every week for 8 weeks to get my DC a new item of clothing because they've grown so fast but I can't afford to get the whole lot in one go?

What I choose to prioritise will be very very different to the next person and for very different but very valid reasons. I can't, for example, use any washing powder other than ecover because of allergies and psoriasis. Would a Govt jobsworth tell me I'm spending too much on laundry powder when the basics brand is 3-4 times less?

I buy a lot of pain killers and sore throat medication - Migraine sufferer, painful periods and ENT issue. Would a jobsworth come along and decide I have a painkiller addiction and send me on a Govt drug awareness programme?

how would I pay for DCs school activities or would the pupil premium go up even more to cover these costs?

Will the PTA take this so I can get cheap, preloved uniforms for DC?

Will I be looked down on because I spend £40 -50 in clakes on a pair of school shoes lat last all year not a £15 supermarket pair that i'll replace at least 3 times?

You also have to think of the unfairness on small businesses this would have!
Big businesses would sign up to the scheme, smaller ones wouldn't be able to afford the time to deal with the paperwork involved.

Its just another way to put money into the pockets of the wealthy at the detriment of the needy.

Also I am pretty sure there is a black market for Foodstamps in the US so addicts can still get their drug/alcohol/cigarette fix.

i can see similar happening with this scheme too.

Tweed - If that was the purpose, don't you think it'd be wiser to spend the same money on financial planning advisors?

The DWP used to have these. They were good.

I can't see how giving troubled people credits in a made-up currency, with rules about what they may buy, would help any of them develop more independent skills.

First, can we come back to this "correct" spending thing? I've already told you I smoke and drink - and that I afford it by not having any other indulgences and being very good at budgeting (well, except when my illness makes me unable to think straight )

So, with "correct" spending, I have to stop buying beer & tobacco. Does this now mean I have to spend twice as much on food and household stuff, as it'll all have to be from an approved supermarket that takes pretend money?

Have you determined that having my hair done is better for me than a beer in the evening? How did you figure this out? My cheap local haircutter won't take pretend money - she doesn't take credit cards.

If I couldn't buy the many bits & bobs my health demands from pound shops, they'd cost three times as much. I bought them online from Sainsbury's one month, when I was too sick to get out, and found out the difference.

Pot plants off the market, the bus fare to see my mum, a local coffee with my sister - would all have to go. Instead, I'd have to do your "correct" spending with all its restrictions and additional costs.

I'm 60, not 6. I don't honestly need this degree of control. Thanks all the same.

xposted with many :)

Do you think they'll specify which brand of gruel is acceptable?

To all the do gooders banging on about people buying fags and booze (total ch5 documentary style bullshit propaganda ) how about looking at the bigger picture ? lack of mental health services/ accessibility to rehab pragrammes, lack of children's services and the ridiculously low levels of social mobility ? Brilliant timing though to start thinking about rolling out this kind of thing, with us coming out of the EU and stripped of many rights that we have so far taken for granted.

Disgraceful idea, truly despair at the levels of hostility towards benefit claimants whipped up by the right wing media. Life on benefits is a miserable existence and not one the majority of claimants would choose. This government should be thoroughly ashamed.

vote most can't afford fags or booze I would imagine. Yes, I really fear for the future but especially the poorest given the fact that politics seems to be moving to the right.

I honestly think I'm gonna win the lotto on Wednesday. First timer (I work BTW so I have your approval to buy one), but I'll probably still be whistling Dixie.

Very good idea. After they have bought booze and fags they go to the food bank and claim they have no money to eat. If people dont like it then just get a job! If your able to save up for one beer in the evening then no, save up and get some education/training so you can get a job. Benefits are not a lifestyle choice.

You've been watching too much channel 5 trash peach. It'll rot your brain you know

Just get a job
Oh just like that, because. Yes they do grow on trees. .
Remember Karma sees everything Peach.
ie you looking down your snout at those less fortunate than yourself, and. There's a very good chance she'll pay you a visit one day in the form of unemployment.
The wheel of fortune moves constantly.
What goes around comes around.

peachpudding - and what if you're disabled? Or have a job, but your hours are cut? What if you have caring responsibilities? What if you live in an area with very high unemployment and can't afford the £££ to move?

Horrific lack of compassion, common sense and awareness of how the world works.