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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be worried - Reintroducing the Truck System for the unemployed in the UK

386 replies

nickymanchester · 10/07/2016 19:17

It has been reported that the UK government is starting a small trial in Manchester to pay (what I presume is) Job Seekers Allowance to people in a brand new blockchain currency called "GovCoin" - similar to BitCoin.

And that what this "money" is spent on will be tracked by the government - initially, the tracking will be on a "voluntary" basis.

So instead of actually paying real money in to a person's bank account they will now provide them with a crypto-currency on their mobile phone which can only be used in certain retailers and where the government will be tracking what the money is spent on. I can well imagine where this will lead.

One of the main backers of this is Lord Hunt, who is the Minister for "Welfare Reform" - boy does that phrase ever put the fear of god into me. As an aside, Lord Hunt was the government minister who, in 2014, said that disabled people were "not worth" the minimum wage. He is also the person behind the move to Universal Credit that, while it may have very laudable aims in theory, in practice it has been a nightmare for many of the people on the receiving end of it.

This is a quote from one of the sources:-

GovCoin Systems tests blockchain-based platform for social welfare payments in UK

Speaking at the Payments Innovation Conference 2016 on 4 July, Minister for Welfare Reform at the Department for Work and Pensions Lord Freud highlighted the ongoing trial saying:

We have been working with GovCoin Systems (and their partners, Barclays, RWE npower and University College London) for this trial. Claimants are using an app on their phones through which they are receiving and spending their benefit payments. With their consent, their transactions are being recorded on a distributed ledger to support their financial management.

Jeremy Wilson, Vice Chairman, Corporate Banking at Barclays, explained that the initiative focuses on adding an additional layer of richer data and identity onto payments, so that a deeper and more effective relationship can be established between the government and claimants.

www.econotimes.com/GovCoin-Sy...s-in-UK-233316

There are many other sites reporting this as well which you can find through googling them, for example:-

www.cityam.com/245128/governm...ain-technology

www.fstech.co.uk/fst/GovCoin_...ents_Trial.php

So why the title of this post and why my concern? Well, at school, one of the A levels I studied was history and a major part of that was the Economic & Social History of Britain in the 18th and 19th Centuries (the other part was Britain and Her Relations with the World 1914-1945, not that anyone's interested). Anyway, the Truck System was an infamous form of payments that became widespread in the UK and led to a great deal of abuse.

While, currently, these are just trials that are happening at the moment, I really do see the awful potential to become a fully fledged Truck System where the state monitors exactly what unemployed people are spending their money on, where they spend it and eventually will be able to control these things. This bit is really scary:-

so that a deeper and more effective relationship can be established between the government and claimants.

AIBU to worry about where this might lead or is it just an example of how new technologies can help young unemployed people so that they don't have to worry about pesky little things like actual having some cash in their hand but have to have pay for a mobile phone in order to access their benefits?

OP posts:
RedHareWithBlondeHair · 10/07/2016 21:53

NeedsAsock I understand that. I in fact consider myself very luck that those services are in place should the need ever arise. I consider myself very fortunate to be in that position, I don't see it as a right though. I am also from somewhere else in the world where the idea of an NHS or JSA is akin to a lotto win.

GarlicStake · 10/07/2016 21:56

Combine, my HB is paid direct to the landlord. It's an option, you just tick a box on the application form. No strong-arm needed ... although social landlords can request a court order that it's paid direct.

starry0ne · 10/07/2016 21:58

This is wrong on so many levels..
the people who think it is fine would you be happy for this to happen to you. I was on benefits and was very good at making benefits last on this system I couldn't. I chose my energy suppliers based on price not what I was allowed to use. I would shop in different places for things like nappies , wash powder. I find Aldi the cheapest place to shop what if I couldn't shop there...
What do you think that because people are on benefits the government are entitled to know everything about your spending. It is degrading.

Highlandfling80 · 10/07/2016 21:58

O and the reason why dsis was unemployed. She is as made redundant. Her redundancy money didn't last long and has had a number of temp jobs since. She is probably inches cusp of needing Esa but wouldn't be too proud to claim. Some judge types of threads like these make me so angry.
I say this as a person who has never claimed benefits bar child benefit until it was withdrawn for those with a 60k income

Theonslostbits · 10/07/2016 21:59

We need a labour government! The gap between rich and poor is getting worse. I don't know of any child who says "when I grow up I want to be a single parent in a council house, having more children for an extra pittance a week so I can get drunk and smoke". We need to all realise we all need each other to function as a society. We all need a safety net when things go wrong. People abuse the system, so do MPs with expenses. Trust me, I was brought up on benefits on the 80s/90s. We had fuck all. (I didnt feel deprived, envious of others material goods as a teenager, yes) My mother didnt drink or smoke or gamble. We were fed and safe in our beds. She studied and now has a very good job. It is shit being at the bottom of the pile and trying to claw your way out is hard work. Stop picking on the deprived! Help them!

GarlicStake · 10/07/2016 21:59

Firsttimer, you're still ignoring all the carers on this thread, all the people like me who ended up with long-term disabilities, all the women stuck in the pension gap; all the contributions paid by those who were working - and so on.

Or are you saying I deserved public money while earning so much that I didn't need it, but don't deserve it now that I do??

GarlicStake · 10/07/2016 22:02

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/un-declares-uk-s-austerity-policies-breach-international-human-rights

The UK 'austerity' programme is in breach of international human rights.

From the UN's summary report:

The Committee is seriously concerned about the disproportionate adverse impact that austerity measures, introduced since 2010, are having on the enjoyment of economic, social and cultural rights by disadvantaged and marginalized individuals and groups. The Committee is concerned that the State party has not undertaken a comprehensive assessment of the cumulative impact of such measures on the realization of economic, social and cultural rights.

GarlicStake · 10/07/2016 22:05

Red, it's really not like winning the lottery Grin It's common sense: if 60 million people all pay £1 into the pot, there's suddenly a £60 million emergency fund for anyone who needs it.

Many other countries have much better social welfare systems than ours. Scandinavia, Denmark, Japan, France & Germany off the top of my head.

CheeseFan · 10/07/2016 22:08

ClaraOswald36 not all people on JSA can get a job just like that. I support people with disabilities who have been turned down for ESA. They desperately want a job, but it's the employers who have a the problem/the person not having access to the right support to get a job. So I don't think you should always define people being on JSA as being able to get a job easily. This system seems to take away people's independence and right to choose what they pay for.

RedHareWithBlondeHair · 10/07/2016 22:10

Garlic Glad my comment entertained you. Clearly you seem to know so much about me and my experiences. I'm sure you're also aware that there are many other countries in which there is no such thing as social welfare.

Bambamrubblesmum · 10/07/2016 22:11

In fairness Garlic taxation rates in Denmark are much higher than the UK. Can't see that being too popular.

Also France are dismantling their welfare system as well.

GarlicStake · 10/07/2016 22:23

I'm sure you're also aware that there are many other countries in which there is no such thing as social welfare.

Yes, I lived in one. Poverty was incredibly distressing. I worked with a project that helps prostituted street children - their parents stick them on a bus to the nearest city, alone, because they are starving. The lucky kids are picked up by gangs for sex work, drug carrying, and theft.

Like my co-workers, I lived with constant background fear of what would happen if I lost my job. At least I could've blagged a flight back to the UK somehow but, until then, I'd have been helpless.

I have now started to feel that same fear in my home country.

Bambam, HMRC says there is £650 million a week in uncollected tax.

Firsttimer82 · 10/07/2016 22:30

Garlic Clearly people on disability benefits who are truly unable to work deserve support. But this discussion is about how you receive that support and what is wrong with receiving it this way if you are spending your money correctly?

Lurkedforever1 · 10/07/2016 22:35

Also what's with the bollocks about deciding who we do or don't mind paying our taxes towards? Shall we all pop down our local hospitals and dictate who we do or don't seem worthy of 'our taxes' treating? Or to local schools and dictate which teens we don't mind our taxes educating.

The whole 'my taxes' logic is bollocks. Apart from the fact the % of every tax payers contribution to income related benefits is fuck all really, it's not your money, it's called taxation. Not your personal charitable fund to award as you see fit.

RufusTheReindeer · 10/07/2016 22:36

Good lord first

Who decides what is correct?

Dawndonnaagain · 10/07/2016 22:39

Clearly people on disability benefits who are truly unable to work deserve support. But this discussion is about how you receive that support and what is wrong with receiving it this way if you are spending your money correctly

  1. Why the qualifier - truly unable...
  2. Who deems the correctness of my spending? When am I allowed a treat, when the government says so? Not at all? Do you not comprehend that most people on benefits, particularly on jsa are in a position of humiliation anyway, because trust me, the job centre does all it can and more to ensure that. Why humiliate someone further? Why marginalise a section of society still further, that's a damned dangerous game.
Firsttimer82 · 10/07/2016 22:41

Rufus I suppose the government of the day. I do think people on unemployment benefit shouldn't be able to gamble for example.

RufusTheReindeer · 10/07/2016 22:41

Agree withdawn

Whats correct

A £3 dvd for the kids

A bar of chocolate

Bottle of wine for your birthady

Highlandfling80 · 10/07/2016 22:42

So will charity shops facebook selling pages etc take take this currency!!.,I doubt it. Making it even harder for the poorest in our society. I can see the govt becoming more right wing and we won't even have the Eu to stop the extreme austerity policies that will only get worse.

RufusTheReindeer · 10/07/2016 22:43

Cross post

I think our government have fuck all idea of what is "correct"

Highlandfling80 · 10/07/2016 22:45

FFS first-timer how much gambling do you think you can do on £71 per week. Actually ever 2ND week it is more like £65 as you have to pay your fares to sign on.

Lurkedforever1 · 10/07/2016 22:45

first 1930's Russia called and said they'd like their opinions on humanity back.

Highlandfling80 · 10/07/2016 22:46

So a lottery ticket once per month would be wrong too!

RufusTheReindeer · 10/07/2016 22:49

What a fucking awful existence

No treats....ever

No tv

No internet

No cinema or nights out

No booze...ever

One assumes christmas is off the cards if you cant buy presents or a tree or a bottle of irish cream liqueur

What the fuck is wrong with you people...

RufusTheReindeer · 10/07/2016 22:51

No phone