AIBU to be worried - Reintroducing the Truck System for the unemployed in the UK

[nickymanchester]

It has been reported that the UK government is starting a small trial in Manchester to pay (what I presume is) Job Seekers Allowance to people in a brand new blockchain currency called "GovCoin" - similar to BitCoin.

And that what this "money" is spent on will be tracked by the government - initially, the tracking will be on a "voluntary" basis.

So instead of actually paying real money in to a person's bank account they will now provide them with a crypto-currency on their mobile phone which can only be used in certain retailers and where the government will be tracking what the money is spent on. I can well imagine where this will lead.

One of the main backers of this is Lord Hunt, who is the Minister for "Welfare Reform" - boy does that phrase ever put the fear of god into me. As an aside, Lord Hunt was the government minister who, in 2014, said that disabled people were "not worth" the minimum wage. He is also the person behind the move to Universal Credit that, while it may have very laudable aims in theory, in practice it has been a nightmare for many of the people on the receiving end of it.

This is a quote from one of the sources:-

GovCoin Systems tests blockchain-based platform for social welfare payments in UK

Speaking at the Payments Innovation Conference 2016 on 4 July, Minister for Welfare Reform at the Department for Work and Pensions Lord Freud highlighted the ongoing trial saying:

We have been working with GovCoin Systems (and their partners, Barclays, RWE npower and University College London) for this trial. Claimants are using an app on their phones through which they are receiving and spending their benefit payments. With their consent, their transactions are being recorded on a distributed ledger to support their financial management.

Jeremy Wilson, Vice Chairman, Corporate Banking at Barclays, explained that the initiative focuses on adding an additional layer of richer data and identity onto payments, so that a deeper and more effective relationship can be established between the government and claimants.

www.econotimes.com/GovCoin-Sy...s-in-UK-233316

There are many other sites reporting this as well which you can find through googling them, for example:-

www.cityam.com/245128/governm...ain-technology

www.fstech.co.uk/fst/GovCoin_...ents_Trial.php

So why the title of this post and why my concern? Well, at school, one of the A levels I studied was history and a major part of that was the Economic & Social History of Britain in the 18th and 19th Centuries (the other part was Britain and Her Relations with the World 1914-1945, not that anyone's interested). Anyway, the Truck System was an infamous form of payments that became widespread in the UK and led to a great deal of abuse.

While, currently, these are just trials that are happening at the moment, I really do see the awful potential to become a fully fledged Truck System where the state monitors exactly what unemployed people are spending their money on, where they spend it and eventually will be able to control these things. This bit is really scary:-

so that a deeper and more effective relationship can be established between the government and claimants.

AIBU to worry about where this might lead or is it just an example of how new technologies can help young unemployed people so that they don't have to worry about pesky little things like actual having some cash in their hand but have to have pay for a mobile phone in order to access their benefits?

Iona The Daily Mail are the worst of the worst when trying to have a sensible discussion about these sort of issues. They perpetuate a certain type of person in order to create a stigma. What that young lady needs is a mentor, not a spread in a national newspaper.

I'm with Garlic.

Garlic - Benefits and Salaries are different though don't you think? If you earn it its yours? Why do you think thats wrong?

Shit this looks bad. Need to read up properly on what's happening but at first reading YANBU to be worried.

fucking hell a week in Butlins - how the other half lives

paid for over a year out of benefits she is legally entitled to - well done her for budgeting well enough to afford a luxury break - she's entitled to spend money she is entitled to any way she likes

This will be very popular despite many of the posts above.
Also there is no human right or entitlement here. The state is allowed to decide when and who and how people receive state assistance. If people do not like policies they will have their chance to vote for Labour/Corbyn etc in 2020.

Iamnot - If someone give you money for free then taxes you on it I don't think you can be considered a taxpayer.

If poor people should only be entitled to food and accommodation and nothing nice, why don't we just be done with it and bring back the workhouse? We all know that they deterred everyone from ever becoming unemployed and needing help.

Firsttimer I work eighteen hours a day, for 65 quid a week. Please continue your argument...

Entitled is the big word their Ghost. Anyway... nothing wrong with Butlins...

No one gets money for free Firsttimer. JSA claimants have to prove they are looking for work. If they don't provide enough proof the benefit is suspended. If they don't attend appointments the benefit is suspended. ESA claimants have to prove they are too ill to work. If they don't provide the information requested or attend appointments their benefit is suspended. Free implies there are no conditions attached.

At a complete loss as to how a single person on jsa can spend money on scratchcards fags sky TV and booze. My dsis buys none of these items, doesn't even have a mobile phone. She rarely buys clothes and if she does they come from the charity shop she volunteers in. Her shoes come from cheapo shops and rarely last. Her only treat is a weekly magazines. I guess someone will come along and tell me she shouldn't be wasting taxpayers money on this. The fact she was a taxpayer herself for 30 YEARS and has been shafted again by her retirement age changing without proper notice us irrelevant too I guess. This system would be a disaster.

Two years ago I took my children on their first and only seaside holiday at a caravan park. Paid £60 for it, as it was term time and cheaper. Self catering meant the food bill was no different there than it was at home. We had a lovely 5 days, and the children still talk about it. They're 6 and 9, and they've had one holiday in their lives, and we're not likely to do that again for a few years. We're happy with that, by the way, and I'm certainly not complaining as I know there are others much worse off than us.

But I certainly hope that others weren't judging me in the way that is displayed on this thread.

First step towards post Brexit world and austerity measures.

Benefits and Salaries are different though don't you think? If you earn it its yours?

No, I don't. See, this shows you think certain people are 'worth' public money while others aren't.

Benefits are an income replacement system. That's all.

Either you believe all recipients of public money should get the absolute minimum you feel they need to live on, or you don't.

The USSR worked on the "minimum needed" basis. Doctors were very badly paid, according to the principle. So were teachers and local authority staff, etc.

Essentially - if you hold to this idea that folks who get public money should be bloody grateful and satisfied with a pittance, then you think like a communist.

If you reckon people who aren't employed deserve a pittance that should be controlled, then you're saying you're saying unpaid work has no value.

It bears thinking about in detail - because it can happen to anyone and is happening to more people, faster, now.

I dont like the system but I do like the idea of utility bills and rent being paid straight to the supplier not the claimant. My uncle spent his 'rent' on weed last month and my poor DGM had to pay it as he guilt-trips her into thinking he'll be out on the streets - its idiots like him that give everyone a bad name and make this seem like a good idea to some.
I'd just like it so that no-one is at risk of losing their home and can get water and heat if they aren't good financially or (like my uncle) just plain selfish. Everything else upto them

red

It's incredibly hard in the UK to not be a reciepant of any gov facilitated or subsidised services if you manage it you still cannot change the fact that you are eligible to use them should the need arise and that is what ever tax payer funds.

And these systems will not work. They do not work in the US - there is a lively black market over there. Then let us think about what comes next - yes, drug testing for people on benefits, they do that in parts of the US too. And every programme over there has cost more than it has saved in benefits being sanctioned for drug use, because the vast, vast majority of people who need benefits act in the best interests of their families. Let's not support punishing the many for the sins of the few.

Yes you have to go through hoops to get JSA and can be sanctioned at the drop of a hat. My dsis was told their were loads of suitable jobs she could apply for. The reality is that there was one unsuitable job. 6am start for a 62 year old with no transport. Fab.

Entitled is the big word their Ghost. Anyway... nothing wrong with Butlins

not really - it's just the correct term for something people are legally entitled to - benefits are there to support people with no income - ergo they are entitled to claim - would you rather they beg?

I am off to Butlins in 4 weeks - I didn't say there was anything wrong with it

when 27 of my colleagues where made redundant last year the ones forced to claim JSA had to sign on daily and prove they had spent 35 hours a week seeking work - it's not money for nothing!

Horrid, horrid idea. The UK seems to be really going downhill. Bureaucracy like this just wastes money instead of saving it. Basic Income for all is the best way to go, saves money, cuts out bureaucracy and gets rid of the shame of being poor and in need.

What a disgusting idea.

Surely it would be a huge breach of privacy to have the government peeping at what you are buying and then in the future possibly even censoring your purchase.

Fuck off. Once that money is in their bank account, it is their cash. They have every right to spend it how they want. £70 a week does not go far. No one wants to live on JSA. It does not stretch far enough

On the US issue there is an interesting case about the FLDS "religious" group going to trial in the Autumn. They pool their money and share it based on need. That breaches the rules of the food stamp programme which by the way requires them to buy goods at particular local shops (they also own the shops). They were also apparently getting people to use their card to say they had received the goods and then the families did not take the goods. The interesting issue is the conflict between their religious principle that goods and money are help in common which conflicts with the benefits system there - that the food bought at the nominated stores should be used just by that individual family and not pooled and used to buy the leaders big cars etc.

I do think we are moving more towards full employed and the massive drop in the pound since Brexit might well have thrown up more work for people in the UK as plenty of people who come over from Eastern Europe for harvests ni Kent by the way are not coming this year as the pound is so low so it may well be worth people applying for jobs there - a direct nice result for those who voted for brexit - more work for local people.

Dawn you are clearly a wonderful person who deserves a full-time wage not benefits at all.

Garlic I guess I do feel some people (i.e. Dr who train for years and work extremely hard) deserve public money and other don't (i.e. people who don't want to / don't look for work.)

iamnot still seems pretty free no me tbh.