AIBU to be worried - Reintroducing the Truck System for the unemployed in the UK

[nickymanchester]

It has been reported that the UK government is starting a small trial in Manchester to pay (what I presume is) Job Seekers Allowance to people in a brand new blockchain currency called "GovCoin" - similar to BitCoin.

And that what this "money" is spent on will be tracked by the government - initially, the tracking will be on a "voluntary" basis.

So instead of actually paying real money in to a person's bank account they will now provide them with a crypto-currency on their mobile phone which can only be used in certain retailers and where the government will be tracking what the money is spent on. I can well imagine where this will lead.

One of the main backers of this is Lord Hunt, who is the Minister for "Welfare Reform" - boy does that phrase ever put the fear of god into me. As an aside, Lord Hunt was the government minister who, in 2014, said that disabled people were "not worth" the minimum wage. He is also the person behind the move to Universal Credit that, while it may have very laudable aims in theory, in practice it has been a nightmare for many of the people on the receiving end of it.

This is a quote from one of the sources:-

GovCoin Systems tests blockchain-based platform for social welfare payments in UK

Speaking at the Payments Innovation Conference 2016 on 4 July, Minister for Welfare Reform at the Department for Work and Pensions Lord Freud highlighted the ongoing trial saying:

We have been working with GovCoin Systems (and their partners, Barclays, RWE npower and University College London) for this trial. Claimants are using an app on their phones through which they are receiving and spending their benefit payments. With their consent, their transactions are being recorded on a distributed ledger to support their financial management.

Jeremy Wilson, Vice Chairman, Corporate Banking at Barclays, explained that the initiative focuses on adding an additional layer of richer data and identity onto payments, so that a deeper and more effective relationship can be established between the government and claimants.

www.econotimes.com/GovCoin-Sy...s-in-UK-233316

There are many other sites reporting this as well which you can find through googling them, for example:-

www.cityam.com/245128/governm...ain-technology

www.fstech.co.uk/fst/GovCoin_...ents_Trial.php

So why the title of this post and why my concern? Well, at school, one of the A levels I studied was history and a major part of that was the Economic & Social History of Britain in the 18th and 19th Centuries (the other part was Britain and Her Relations with the World 1914-1945, not that anyone's interested). Anyway, the Truck System was an infamous form of payments that became widespread in the UK and led to a great deal of abuse.

While, currently, these are just trials that are happening at the moment, I really do see the awful potential to become a fully fledged Truck System where the state monitors exactly what unemployed people are spending their money on, where they spend it and eventually will be able to control these things. This bit is really scary:-

so that a deeper and more effective relationship can be established between the government and claimants.

AIBU to worry about where this might lead or is it just an example of how new technologies can help young unemployed people so that they don't have to worry about pesky little things like actual having some cash in their hand but have to have pay for a mobile phone in order to access their benefits?

If this is isolated to jsa and not esa/is all the other benefits I'm
Not sure I see the problem. Jsa is supposed to be a short term solution between jobs. Not a lifestyle choice. There are many people on jsa who should actually be on esa but are not being processed properly. Many of these are people with learning difficulties and/or mental health problems, people who are unaware of how the system works and are manipulated by the system. They already fall by the wayside due to being more frequently sanctioned than other claimants. Being on jsa is not always a lifestyle choice, in fact it is rarely so as places like the Joseph Rowntree Foundation have proven ad infinitum.

Or it might be an incentive to actually get a job, and earn money that they don't have to account for as to what they spend it on?
Read the above and pull your judgy pants down a bit.

It feels like the goverment is determined to spend the whole benifits budget on buearocracy (sp?) rather than actually take a step back and think what do we need - everyone to have enough to live a healthy live and anincentive to work for the lowest cost tot he tax payer - and think of a solution.
I like the idea of a basic wage to everybody so everyone gets e.g. 6000 a yr, cash and wages are extra, so you choose earn adn live better or don't - your choice. The cost of giving a basic wage to all has been shown to be cheaper (at least in some coutries) as it removes the need for so much of the fucking nonsense around benifits.

But if people have paid their taxes though.
First timer. It's their money so they can spend it how they like

If benefits are 'taxpayers money' then isn't the same true of the wages paid to any civil service or public sector employee - including doctors, nurses, teachers and MPs? The money comes from the same source (the government), surely? Should we monitor what everyone working in these areas spends their money on too?

Awful idea - practically, morally and economically.

I disagree Ghost, I am happy to support people that need benefits but why should they spend the money on non-essentials such as SKY and fags and booze? Its not 'THEIR' money, its everyone who pays taxes money. If your autonomy has lead to you being unemployed and choosing to spend your money like that then maybe not everyone deserves or is benefited by their own self governance?
Please read my earlier post.
Also, what about me? I care for three people with disabilities. Am I allowed to have the odd bottle of wine or a small sky subscription with your money?

Fuck this is reprehensible. So many shades of wrong it's difficult to know where to start.

God I hate this country right now.

This ^^^^^^

Unemployed people can also have been tax payers ffs - people are legally entitled to benefits - they claim - it's THEIR money

what next - checking what people spend CB or CTC on? woe betide it's not on the children

people buy fags because they are addicted and sky because we all tend to have broadband and phones and it's part of the package - and why not?

Just because you pay tax you don't have the right to dictate to people out of work what they buy

Oh, and Thatcher introduced taxation of benefits, so in claimants are also tax payers!

If your autonomy has lead to you being unemployed yeah because unemployment is always the fault of the unemployed person - not due to shop closure, steel plants shutting or a down turn in the economy

non-essentials such as SKY

Our phone line and internet is with SKY - best deal for us. I've found a phone and internet kind of useful for job hunting when we've needed to.

We do get a basic TV package - though when we were claiming - 3 months when primary wage earner was made redundant out of blue we were locked into 12 month contract so couldn't cancel.

Though most of our living costs were covered by our saving still - the JSA was helpful though not as helpful as the council tax relief - though think that's not around anymore - helped us eeek thing out till work as found which took a few months.

I do think the Government should have some idea how benefits are being used.

The op was herself she is assuming and guessing a lot.

I do think the Government should have some idea how benefits are being used.

Why?

Meanwhile the uber rich dodge taxes and manipulate the country to suit their own ends.

This is a horrible idea, utterly humiliating. That's why it will be a winner as people love to punish the poor.

Will poor people be allowed to buy a present for their kids on their birthday, or only if it's from a particular store, at a particular time.

Dawn of course they should - it's important to know how vital resources are being used. Much as I dislike the sentiment of this scheme, it seems the culture of benefits have evolved in to something of a 'right' in this country which is not how it should really be.

It scares the shit out of me, because it dehumanises people. And it will leave them worse off because cheap choices will be removed. Along with the struggle to find private rents that accept hb, will people now also need to find landlords taking payment via the phone app?

I also doubt it will be voluntary even at this level. The rules might say it is, but claimants will know full well they are too vulnerable to sanctions to object.

What next, shall we remove dc and introduce the gulag system to to cure their workshy ways? Because then instead of realising how easily it could be us, we can pretend jsa claimants all brought it on themselves.

It's fucking evil, and anyone in favour is either ignorant of the facts or downright inhumane. Lord cunt can go fuck himself with a porcupine carcass.

I am happy to support people that need benefits but why should they spend the money on non-essentials such as SKY and fags and booze?

It would be better to look at why some of the poor or those on benefits spend their money where they do.

A sky subscription is far cheaper than taking a family out to the cinema, the theatre, sports match or a gig.
-Cinema -£42 here for a family ticket.
-theatre -£30 a ticket
-gigs -£10+
-football match depending on the league easily £60 a ticket.

and often benefit claimants need access to a phone AND the internet to fill out universal job match forms daily, it works out cheaper than getting the bus every day to the jobcentre! Check with SKY it is more expensive to get an internet and phone package than an all inclusive one.

TV and the internet is, believe it or not, a social leveller. It gives everyone access to so much information. Before anyone suggests using local facilities. Libraries are closing, internet time in local libraries if often limited to just 30 minutes.

Cigarettes. It takes a lot of willpower, motivation to quit smoking. If you are in a shitty situation it makes it harder to quit. I was only able to quit smoking when my personal situation improved along with my Mental health. Cigrettes are a crutch that is hard to give up.

Alcohol. Its cheap, can be consumed at home. Its a social thing when going to the pub is just so expensive. often gives you the chance to forget for a while. Also a crutch that can be hard to give up when your situation is so shite and options are limited.

You do realise that JSA is about £70 a week?

Are we having a compassion by-pass here?? Who knows what is around the corner for any of us? I am fortunate to be able to support myself/my family and long may it last. The judgemental attitude of some mumsnetters is outrageous.

To second Dawn.
Yes Why. If I ever end up on benefits. I'm not blinkered I know it can happen to anyone at anytime without warning.
Nothing to say. I won't be starting a thread about finding myself unemployed.
However one thing I do know. There is no way I will be giving any nosey controlling fucker as to how I was spending
MY money. !!!!!!. .

I'm not surprised by anything this lot come up with anymore. If they can screw the poor and hand valuable contracts to their friends at the same time, all the better.

I do think the Government should have some idea how benefits are being used.

So when they see 18 bottles of wine in a month will they know that's an entrepreneurial person bulk buying at supermarket 'wine event' prices then selling to the neighbours and school events at standard prices, thus covering the interest rate on the rent and CT they're currently having to borrow and keeping a roof over their head?

Or will they see an alcoholic and plunge them into spiralling interest debt on top of the rent and CT borrowing debt, by stopping them from doing it?

Dawn of course they should - it's important to know how vital resources are being used. Much as I dislike the sentiment of this scheme, it seems the culture of benefits have evolved in to something of a 'right' in this country which is not how it should really be.
Nobody asks or rather demands to know how wages are spent. I do not see why I should have to explain how my Carer's allowance is spent to anyone. Or dh's Disability Living allowance. It's nobody's business but ours.

The judgemental attitude of some mumsnetters is outrageous

I think people are allowed to voice different opinions. Mumsnet isn't a homogeneous group.

Not sure how it will work on a practical level. Access to authorised shops etc.

Although I think the argument about a right to alcohol and cigarettes is a little weak when you've got kids to feed. Surely they should be the priority.

I am happy to support people that need benefits but why should they spend the money on non-essentials such as SKY and fags and booze? Its not 'THEIR' money, its everyone who pays taxes money. If your autonomy has lead to you being unemployed and choosing to spend your money like that then maybe not everyone deserves or is benefited by their own self governance?

I'm not working because I'm a full time carer for my 2 disabled children. We have Sky because they cannot cope with the cinema due to their disabilities and cannot participate in some activities and like to watch certain programmes to calm down (repeatedly).

I worked full time all my life in well paid jobs until I had to stop to stay home to care for my children.

I like to be able to buy from charity shops, ebay, and the markets to get the best buys possible, so I can save money for treats for my children and save money so that if my car breaks down, I can afford to pay for the repair.

I would love to be able to work full time, but it's not going to happen any time soon, as it's practically impossible to sort safe reliable childcare for my children, and they home ed as they are unable to cope with school due to their disabilities.

If I want to make the most of the money I receive each month in benefits by shopping around and getting bargains, so that I can save money for emergencies or the odd treat for my children or myself, then I don't see where that's a problem.

I detest this "it's not their money, it's OUR money" attitude. It shows a decided lack of empathy for those you perceive as "beneath" you.