To be really angry at the letter received from nursery?

[Pinkbabe1]

DD goes to nursery twice a week, mornings only and I collect her at 12.30

Today I was 6 mins late picking her up as my son had a massive shite explosion 5 mins before we were due to set off and it took me a while to clean him up, hence being 6 mins late. This is the first time it has happened in the whole time she has been there apart from when my son was first born and I told them on dropping her off I would be late collecting as he had his injections (was told no problem)

Anyway, got to the door and was promptly handed a letter to which i read when I got home. It was a "late collection policy" letter which basically said that for every minute you are late collecting there will be a £1 charge in future - fair enough. However it then went on to say that as I had been persistently late (!) this could be considered neglect and abandonment in extreme cases!!! I was absolutely flabbergasted and immediately emailed the nursery. I am yet to receive a response.

I have since spoken to another parent at the nursery who said they received the same letter after being 2 mins late to collect their daughter, therefore a generic letter.

AIBU to think this is really a harsh thing to put in a letter?! I don't think it was at all necessary but maybe I'm wrong and this is normal?!?!

I'm guessing the guidance hasn't changed and they are just sticking to what they've been told to do.

Because what might happen if they actually thought about what they were doing? The shock!

Regarding the late fee, there has to be a grace period of a few minutes - it is easy for your watch to be 2-3 mins out of sync with the nursery clock so your watch might say on time, theirs might say 2 mins late.

Unless you are significantly late (more than 3 or 4 minutes) then I wouldn't be paying any fine. That's precisely the reason that speed cameras for example , give you a few mph leeway - to make up for any slight difference in calibration.

That's not how it works though maninawomans world. If the nursery closes at 7 you have to be picked up and out the door with your child by 7. You can't stroll in then and argue that their clock says 7.02 but you're not really late. So pretty much the latest you could get there is 6.55, at which point the 2 minute clock being out issue isn't really a consideration.

Another nursery manager here who thinks the letter is OTT
Lateness is a problem sometimes but it doesn't need a threat to refer to social services

We use an electronic system to record drop offs and collection so I can tell to the minute which children are collected late
We do have a late collection fine but I've only applied it once
Most times a personally addressed letter explkaining that a late fine will be applied to persistent latecomers is enough
We have very good relationships with our parents and they are very good at ringing to let us know if they are going to be late
My staff are also excellent and don't rush out the door bang on finish time
If children are not collected 10 minutes after their finish time, then I will ring all the contacts we have. I've never been left with a child
I do record these instances if I've had to contact parents in the safeguarding log, because it could be a part of a bigger picture. But being late is not a cause for referral

In what world can a nursey close its doors at precisely 7pm and staff walk out of those doors? Are children held in a pen for last 15 minutes and not allowed to touch anything, while staff close up the premises and tidy the rooms?

Staff don't walk out by 7pm. Where did that come from?

Wow, I've turned up late (unintentionally) a fair few times dropping off and picking up my son at preschool, I apologise and they just smile and say don't worry, these things happen. They do know I'm a 40minute walk away though (no car or buses) and suffer anxiety and agoraphobia, so maybe they go easy on me. But from what I can tell they don't bother about others either.

I'd just shrug it off, it was only a couple of minutes. You couldn't leave your son in a poopy nappy, there may have been traffic, late buses, whatever else. None of it in your control. Not like you sit at home thinking, "ahh I think I'll turn up late today"

I can understand the staff ratios etc issue and paying staff overtime but who does work in a job where everything runs to time every single day? All jobs I've ever worked in expect a 5/10 minute leeway at the start and/or end of the day to allow for flexibility. I used to work on the same road as my childcare and there were some days I was 5 minutes late because I got nobbled for a conversation in the reception. If I could say "sorry can this wait till tomorrow?" I would but that's not always possible. Equally I've cut it very fine picking DD1 up from preschool due to a poo explosion by DD2. That's life with children! Child care workers should understand that. If the OP was genuinely 'persistently late' a better way of approaching it would be to ask if she'd like her child to stay for lunch every day to avoid her having to rush for a 12.30pm pick up. The nursery worker could say "which would work out an extra £X a week" which would gently remind the OP that picking her child up on time would save her that extra money and help to keep better time keeping. That's if she was persistently late which from what she tells us does not meet my threshold for 'persistent'. One of the mums at preschool is notorious even from the children for being late and I don't know what the staff do to work with her but we have reminders in our folders every month or so. It uses a bit of emotional blackmail to say the children are upset if they're left on the carpet on their own when the other children have gone. And actually I know this to be true as I had to take DD1 back inside for a poo as she couldn't make it home without one and saw children sitting on the carpet looking upset when all their friends had gone home. Late Mum rushed in apologising and her child did not look happy. So there are effects on children of being late which could make more of an impact than the nonsense safeguarding/social services twaddle that gets spouted. A parent being 6 minutes late is not a safeguarding issue when children are returned home to parents who have been convicted (and then overturned) of violence against their child who go on to beat them to death. People who work with children need to have some perspective and build positive relationships rather than punitive ones. OP's nursery could have given her the option of the half hour lunch extra each day or reminding her the alternative is £1 a minute. That makes her feel in control of the choices rather than punished for a one off event which she was mortified by.

"This sort of carelessness and overreach always makes me wonder what else they do that is dishonest as a matter of course in an attempt to cover themselves."

THIS! WITH BELLS ON!

I would of course cough up the £. for the 6mins. Irritating but if over 5mins 'grace' then I guess that is fair enough. Also makes it clear that you are a reasonable person.
But I would also write a clear letter stating that you have been late on 1 previous AGREED occasion for your other child's injections.
Therefore you have been unexpectedly late ONCE for 6mins due to an unexpected exploding nappy.

This should fend off any nonsense about SS involvement re 'abandonment'.

Christ on a bike - is this really a THING in England???

as a childminder, I can say that it is always the same parents who are late. Always using the round of excuses. I shut at 6 and they knew that when they signed the contract but are still late and they don't care about late 'fine' they pay it every week. I have politely asked them many times in the past to respect my hours of work but they don't respect it.

So I will probably use a similar letter used in the OP 's nursery to try and Improve the situation. It's not a bad idea.

Most private nurseries operate on minimum staff:child ratios.
Most private nurseries expect staff to tidy and clean up before closing time.

Nursery staff are lucky if they have extra adults, or extra time at the end of the day for cleaning.

I was once late picking my DD up from preschool, for similar reasons actually. My DS had pooped and i wasnt about to leave him in a dirty nappy whilst i fetched DD. Anyone, i was handed a letter telling me they could have contacted SS if they wanted to. I was never late before this, nor after, was a one off. I cried my little heart out because i was then convinced i was a bad bum!

I think its standard tbf, albeit slightly ott in most cases.

Oh my gosh, i meant bad mum! Not bad bum, embarsssing lol

I run a pre school a.d would t dream of giving a letter like this. If a pare t turned up.late saying 'sorry nappy explosion' I would say 'oh well shit happens' literally and do no more. If a parent was consistently 10 mins late every day I would first have a chat, then send an email reminding them of our the mimes then go down the route of late charging. We have it written in our policy that we don't call social services until they are an hour late and we haven't been able to contact any of their emergency numbers. I do think that it harsh.

That sounds totally OTT.

People could be late for a variety of reasons : stuck in traffic/held on at work/car won't start. How on earth does that = neglect or abandonment?

I would be furious to have received that letter.

but if the op picks her dc up at half 12 surely it doesnt apply to her anyway

We've had to now wait until exactly opening time too as my dh drops ds off he stays till opening time with ds but obviously someone has been taking the piss as its kept locked! There's always parents who spoil it for others.

I worked in a nursery years ago, and we had a child for an extra 40 mins without being able to contact anyone, luckily the third person on the list answered her phone after the fifth time. We were wondering how long before we called someone official. It was the first time the child had been late too.

Also it might be your one off, but a different child late every night.

Mrsc118 I hope your husband doesn't go in until opening, as that is the time that staff get prepared for the morning, and having parents hanging around 10 minutes early is not on.

im guessing when you registered your childs place at the nursery you would have signed a contract, agreeing to their terms and conditions. so late collections are breaching the contract, which is possibly another reason for the letter. late fees are common practice in nurseries. staff are working to tight regulations (staff to child ratios) which cannot be compromised , and any parent wouldnt want or expect their child to be cared for without sufficient staff.

I agree with a pp who says most nurseries expect staff to tidy during the day, and actually staff normally leave 15 mins after closing - children are encouragedt o help tidy up around 15 mins before then have group time then a few stories then singing in a circle while other member of staff flits about tidying. They certainly aren't allowed to make a huge mess until nursery closing, it's only sensible when you think of it. And I think a one off is ok but other than that it's not

Me and DH work full time with at least 40 minutes commute each way. I have serious heart issues and ran all the way down to the train station when I looked at my mobile train app as due to southern trains cancellations I knew I would be late. I barely made it on time to my DD nursery but I was 5 minute late to my DS after school club. I had to pay £50 (it's £50 per 15 minutes) and was told that they would call social services after the 15 minutes had run out. I called them as soon as I saw that 3 trains had been cancelled and I would be late but still they would call social services because I was late. I cried my heart out. Felt the worst mum in the world. This happened this May. Now every single day I go to work stressing out if I'll make it on time. That day I left work st 3.30 (usually I leave at 4.30) because I'd seen the trains would be cancelled and I still only got to the after school club at 6.05. Every single day from noon I check my train app every five minutes. It's not fair! I feel like a crap mother!

If a shop Shuts at 6, they lock the doors at 6. The staff stay behind to Cash up etc but you don't expect to walk in at 6 and make your purchase.
Nursery is the same. Obviously, if your child isn't collected they have no choice to deal with it but it's wrong to think you can rock up at closing time to collect.

Can you move their childcare pspc? That's bloody awful

Anyone think the world has gone mad??

Personally I would be removing my child from that nursery and putting them with a nursery with their head screwed on

Fair enough about the late charge,but saying that you are 'persistantly late' when you have only ever been late once? That is a piss-take and I would challenge it.