Cowboys and Indians.....offensive?

[mrgrouper]

Yesterday was the teachers strike, so I took my son to Gulliver's World in Warrington. Gulliver's world has hardly been updated since the 1980s, however I like this because it has a retro feel to it and reminds me of when I went there as a child. Most of the signage is from the eighties.
Anyhow there was a couple there who were clearly unimpressed by its dated appearance. We were in the Wild West part of the park and there is a large sign that says Cowboys and Indians. The woman started pointing and said she could not believe in 2016 they would have such a politically incorrect sign.
I was a bit surprised. Is Cowboys and Indians now racist and offensive? It is the first I have heard of this.

Myown, this wasn't a case of the word being reclaimed, it is simply that many members of the indigenous peoples of America have never found the terms 'Indians' or 'American Indians' offensive. And actually, many do find 'Native Americans' offensive, as their nations predated America.

This in no way means that I think 'Cowboys & Indians' is not problematic; rather it means that I think it is not a good idea to take offense on behalf of others without first checking what they actually find offensive.

Ignorant- or disingenuous. Who knows...........

Yes fair point Bertrand, I have no idea.

Lurking

Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee is probably the most heartbreaking book I have ever read. Not just because of the treatment Native Americans had meted out to them then, but the utter mockery and contempt they have been treated with since, in full view of the world, who lapped up the "Cowboys and Indians" Western film genre without a thought.

Gwen s did a cowboys and Indians music video a few years ago. Many Americans might be niave on this too.

Then again she has built a career on racism.

Gwen S? What has she done re racism? I've never really followed her career.

Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee

Is really a catalogue of broken promises, lies and - as you say - heartbreaking stories.

The bitterest irony is, the indigenous cultures of the Americas would have happily given the settlers the gold they so craved. It was only because the invaders believed that everyone had to think like they (the Europeans) did, that they felt they needed to destroy the native populations.

SARCASM ALERT:

Luckily we are so much more enlightened now. It's utterly fanciful to think that we would judge a culture by our own values these days.

Luckily we are so much more enlightened now. It's utterly fanciful to think that we would judge a culture by our own values these days. we still bomb people for oil among other things.

I am amazed they called the people they met in the new worlds barbarians, when it is the actions of the so called pioneers that is barbaric.

Sandra I have just checked the video and it was pulled. The pictures are still there. Ticks all the boxes for controversy.

I thought this article was interesting. Some of the natives prefer Indian and gave the reasoning behind it.

Moreover, a large number of Indians actually strongly object to the term Native American* for political reasons. In his 1998 essay "I Am An American Indian, Not a Native American!", Russell Means, a Lakota activist and a founder of the American Indian Movement (AIM), stated unequivocally, "I abhor the term 'Native American.'" He continues:
It is a generic government term used to describe all the indigenous prisoners of the United States. These are the American Samoans, the Micronesians, the Aleuts, the original Hawaiians, and the erroneously termed Eskimos, who are actually Upiks and Inupiaqs. And, of course, the American Indian.
I prefer the term American Indian because I know its origins. ... As an added distinction the American Indian is the only ethnic group in the United States with the American before our ethnicity.*
others argue that neither term should be used, because they both blur the differences between various Indian peoples. In her essay "What's in a Name? Indians and Political Correctness," Christina Berry, a Cherokee writer, argues that people should avoid the terms Indian and Native American:

In the end, the term you choose to use (as an Indian or non-Indian) is your own personal choice. ... Very few Indians that I know care either way. The recommended method is to refer to a person by their tribe, if that information is known. The reason is that the Native peoples of North America are incredibly diverse. It would be like referring to both a Romanian and an Irishman as European. It's true that they are both from Europe, but their people have very different histories, cultures, and languages. The same is true of Indians. The Cherokee are vastly different from the Lakota, the Dine, the Kiowa, and the Cree, but they are all labeled Native American. So whenever possible an Indian would prefer to be called a Cherokee or a Lakota or whichever tribe they belong to. This shows respect because not only are the terms Indian, American Indian, and Native American an over simplification of a diverse ethnicity, but you also show that you listened when they told what tribe they belonged to. ... What matters in the long run is not which term is used but the intention with which it is used. 

www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/fts/bismarck_200504A16.html

Cowboys and Indians, a game now consigned to the history books, but generations of children (including me) grew up thinking cowboys were the goodies and the Indians were the baddies. When something is deeply entrenched in your childhood as this game was the blame should lie elsewhere if someone doesnt always realise how offensive it was.

Forgot we were the only country that colonised anywhere.

However, the Native Americans were treated terribly.

It is taught in schools and the students learn about the empire

It was more genocide than colonisation really.
The indigenous tribes in America were and continue to be treated very badly in the USA. They have a black president and Hispanic people are starting to achieve more but the indigenous people are still very much an underclass, comparable to the Aboriginals in Australia.
Most people haven't really learnt about it so have no idea but if the Americans are apologising for slavery they should be doing something about this as well.
I would find the name of that ride offensive , if you want something worse check out the " why are the Indians Red" song in Peter Pan!!

The looking hot video was pulled the day after it was released. But the fact they even reached the stage where after months of planing and prep it was approved and even made beggers beleive.

She started off her solo stuff by keeping 4 Japanese girls with her at all times that were given nick names like pets and apparently banned from speaking.

Cowboys and Indians, a game now consigned to the history books, but generations of children (including me) grew up thinking cowboys were the goodies and the Indians were the baddies.

I grew up playing "War" more - where "ze baddies" were German (but, enough about the British Royal Family ). I think C&I was more a previous generation - Roy Rodgers, Lone Ranger, etc.]

I can't be arsed to do the research, but I would hazard a guess that in the 1800s, those children not up chimneys or down mines would have played a game where the enemy wore stripey tops, berets, and sold onions, and were all called "Boney" - certainly folk songs of that era were quite unashamedly Francophobe.

I'm genuinely surprised that any adults could not know the history behind the game "Cowboys and/versus Indians". Very surprised.

Why? Not everyone was taught it at school. I consider myself well educated, but this thread is a history lesson to me, and find it fascinating!
As they say, every day's a school day.
I know about the invasion of the Vikings, and the holocaust, but Cowboys and Indians?
Nope, never been taught anything about that.
I wouldn't have batted an eyelid at the sign as it seriously wouldn't have crossed my mind that it was offensive.
I think the staff will probably give a look like this and if people complain about it....

So you've never see a Western? Never heard of the genocide of the Native American tribes? Never seen Pocahontas? Never heard of General Custer?

No not heard or seen any of those things.

Little consolation, but a lot of US placenames are from the indigenous peoples (which is why they are so un .... ^European").

Mississippi, Tennessee, Wisconsin, Potomac, Illinois, Chicago, Nevada, Arizona, Chattanooga (gotta love that one), Michigan, Wyoming, Nebraska ... (high fives self as managed to spell all those right 1st time )

Maybe not genocide, but the Roman elimination of the druids is a more local example. Although I suspect the Highland clearances are a more recent example.

know about the invasion of the Vikings, and the holocaust, but Cowboys and Indians

Do you know about the British in India? The killing of 1000s of peaceful protestors at the temple in Amritsar by British troops?

This was less than 100 years ago.

WRT terminology, Indian is the preferred designation for many people. Some people prefer the term Native American. Either one really is fine. I quite like the term First Nations, which is often used in Canada.

"Cowboys and Indians" conjures up an outdated and stereotypical view of North American history. It isn't the word Indian that is at fault, but the implication that one could reduce the complicated and bloody history of European settlement to a children's game.

So what do people think happened to the native Americans? (Ithink First Nation is the preferred term, by the way) What about native Australians? Do people know what happened to them?

I have done a bit of research and found out the park was built in 1978, so the sign probably dates from then.

What about Dr Quinn, Medicine woman? cmon I was educated in Africa, needless to say, I certainly NEVER learnt it in school, but I've watched Westerns and watch documentaries.

Actually, if asked dd about those things she may never have heard of them. Maybe it is a generational thing.

I'm genuinely surprised that any adults could not know the history behind the game "Cowboys and/versus Indians". Very surprised.

Why? Not everyone was taught it at school

I am very surprised at this. My son did a project at school when he was six yrs old (about 12 yrs ago) Subject was famous people in history, he chose Crazy Horse. You don't have to be taught it at school, indeed, the subject was never even touched upon in school. I think he chose it because of some films we had watched when he was young and the subsequent conversations (possibly even Disney's Pocahontas might have featured??) It is pretty common knowledge, the suffering all these indigenous people endured. Native American Indians, Aborigines, Maoris, etc. You don't have to be taught about it at school to know about it.My children know because we have discussed it at home. We'll still watch an old Western movie, but look at it from another perspective. I am perplexed that some people are still unaware of this.

Just checked with my 15 year old- he was able to explain clearly why Cowboys and Indians is not an OK concept.