Cowboys and Indians.....offensive?

[mrgrouper]

Yesterday was the teachers strike, so I took my son to Gulliver's World in Warrington. Gulliver's world has hardly been updated since the 1980s, however I like this because it has a retro feel to it and reminds me of when I went there as a child. Most of the signage is from the eighties.
Anyhow there was a couple there who were clearly unimpressed by its dated appearance. We were in the Wild West part of the park and there is a large sign that says Cowboys and Indians. The woman started pointing and said she could not believe in 2016 they would have such a politically incorrect sign.
I was a bit surprised. Is Cowboys and Indians now racist and offensive? It is the first I have heard of this.

I don't think there has been educational one upmanship

There hasn't. If anything there are people claiming to be highly educated but knowing nothing about this as it wasn't taught.

None of this was taught to me. If it has any relevance (which it hasn't) I have a (very ordinary) ordinary LLB.

Have posters never heard of Dances with Wolves, The Last of the Mohicans or Soldier Blue?

I mean, I didn't see this happening - I was three - but it's pretty high-profile, and tends to come up in any history of the Oscars/discussion of Brando/ actors and politics etc etc. I remember it coming up a lot when Dances With Wolves came out.

I agree with Rhi, Dylan and Bertrand. It hasn't been a case of educational one-upmanship at all, as far as I can see. The plight of the native Americans and Australians (as well as many other indigenous peoples around the world, of course) has been so well documented, that my surprise is equal to that if someone said to me they had never heard of the Pyramids, for example, or that Henry VIII had six wives. Books, films, documentaries, general discussion. Even children's programmes - Bertrand gave the example of Disney's Pocahontas. Yes, of course it has been turned into a sort of fairy-tale romance and sanitised for the younger viewer, and the story resembles very little of the actual facts, but one of the underlying messages is the persecution of the native Americans at the hands of the 'white man'. Children's programmes like Little House on the Prairie (someone further back mentioned Dr Quinn, Medicine Woman - romanticised and sanitised, but again, the underlying message is still there). And my children watched those programmes and read books. Dances with Wolves is a recent one, along with many, many other films. How could anyone claim to not know anything about it? Many US States still bear original NA names - Idaho, Iowa, Nebraska, Dakota, et al. Yukon and Nunavut in Canada. Those who say they'd no idea of the history of America AT ALL - have you never wondered, or heard anyone speak about it. And I'm not for one minute suggesting that someone is stupid for not knowing, I am simply completely and utterly baffled as to the reasons why.

I was making light of my lack of Maths knowledge yesterday evening on this same thread, because I know I am utterly crap at Maths, but thinking about it whilst in bed last night, came to the conclusion that my ignorance in Maths is hardly likely to cause offence or distress to anyone but me.

(Took me so long to type that last post, I see it has crossed with a couple of others ...)

The plight of the native Americans and Australians (as well as many other indigenous peoples around the world, of course) has been so well documented, that my surprise is equal to that if someone said to me they had never heard of the Pyramids, for example, or that Henry VIII had six wives

Exactly or that Mary Queen of Scots, Charles 1st and Louis XVI were beheaded.

I was educated to a basic standard level, only got a couple of 'O' levels (equivalent to today's GCSEs) and CSEs (lower than a GCSE). Didn't go to University, have no degrees, so I'm not clever at all, not in the slightest. But I am aware of the world around me. Thank goodness for that!

Many US States still bear original NA names

A majority of states, in fact.

I really wouldn't expect people to know the whole in's and out's of Native American history (hell i'm half native and I learn something new about my mothers own tribe every time I speak to her). I even understand not knowing that using the term Indian, red Indian or Eskimo is offensive. BUT, now you know. So stop using it.

Cowboys and Indians...........offensive?

Yes.

There's talk of the Washington redskins in the NFL having to change their name. Doubt this has anything to do with Gullivers.
I do think sometimes, people can go out of their way to be offended but, on this one you're probably right

South Park did an absolutely superb episode about the Washington Redskin controversy.

Seriously if you still think South Park is a silly cartoon, watch again with fresh eyes. Its actually a very good cultural satire. With poo jokes.

Interesting reading about where people think our knowledge of the world comes from. I didn't learn much at school but I think that you learn a lot through your experiences the older you get. Eg. meeting migrants from countries I know nothing about makes me want to go and read up. Travel in ex British colonies, sparked an interest in the the history of empire. This led to a finding out about indigenous people and their treatment . I'm another poster who went straight on Wikipedia,after watching Pocahontas.

Here's a quote from Eli Wiesel, Nobel Peace prize winner and Holicaust survivor, who died this week:

'I have tried to keep the memory alive, I have tried to fight those who would forget. Because if we forget, we are guilty, we are accomplices.'

Wednesday Addams ;-)

It is offensive, I remember it being banned in the playground when I was a kid in the 1980s.

Good luck with their CS, hopefully they have changed since I had a run in with them (though it was 20 years ago I'm still bitter

We'd taken a then 3 year old DS to their Matlock park. When we got there almost every ride was closed. Anyone who's been to that park knows it's VERY hilly, so to push DS halfway up a sodding mountain in his buggy to find the ride at the top was shut was a tad annoying. Staff just shrugged at the suggestion of putting the 'ride closed' sign at the bottom of the hill.

We'd spent a lot of a very small budget at the time to go there so when we got back I wrote a polite letter outlining the issues we'd had. I got the rudest reply that basically said 'well, if it's that bad you wont be wanting to come again' and no, I didn't. And neither did any of my family, friends or schools I've worked with who all booked trips elsewhere.
I can hold a grudge for England

I live in Canada and the term "Indian" is extremely passé - Aboriginal, First Nations and Inuit are widely understood to be acceptable. I cannot personally recall having ever heard a fellow citizen referring to a person as an "Eskimo" in the past 25 years at least - so I would argue that is not a widely used term.

The US is a different kettle of fish.

Yes the US is different. I thought reservations were bad in Canada and absolutely refused point blank to live on one that was literally 20 minutes away from where I lived even though it would gave meant I could be declared "status" and all the "benefits" that come with it. But when I drove through the mid west United States I was disgusted at the treatment of the native peoples. Mount Rushmore literally makes me rage.