Cowboys and Indians.....offensive?

[mrgrouper]

Yesterday was the teachers strike, so I took my son to Gulliver's World in Warrington. Gulliver's world has hardly been updated since the 1980s, however I like this because it has a retro feel to it and reminds me of when I went there as a child. Most of the signage is from the eighties.
Anyhow there was a couple there who were clearly unimpressed by its dated appearance. We were in the Wild West part of the park and there is a large sign that says Cowboys and Indians. The woman started pointing and said she could not believe in 2016 they would have such a politically incorrect sign.
I was a bit surprised. Is Cowboys and Indians now racist and offensive? It is the first I have heard of this.

Lurking, it is am understatement i agree but given that i was pouring over an atlas with a 7 year old and a 4 year old i wad keeping things simple! They know they were pushed back they know there was fighting, they know that the way they lived wasn't possible any more without being free to live on the land. But didn't think a full blown discussion of genocide quite she appropriate.

In lots of ways it is like the treatment of Aboriginal Australians. Similarly, lots of the problems of NA communities today - poverty, proportionally huge numbers in prison , unemployment, police brutality, crappy healthcare etc - aren't unlike those in Aboriginal communities.

Yes, I do know NAs who refer to themselves/their nation as Indian/s, but like Sparrowhawk, I see that as their prerogative, and it's pretty unlikely that Gulliver's World is doing it out of solidarity with NA identity reclamation .

Almond pudding, if a non-indigenous person uses it, it is extremely offensive. Just like using the N word.

'cowboys and Indians' was pretty out of date in the 1980's even.

if you are 5 and have no awareness, it's a fun game. But other than that...
you should be aware of the historical basis of it and not encourage it at all.

yes, I think they need to change their signage!

Bertrand

You have read things into my post which were simply not there. But don't let me stop you jumping to erroneous conclusions.

No, it isn't AB. A quick google will answer this question for you. It is the preferred term for many and it is part of the name of many of their organisations - literary awards, physicians, higher education etc.

There is no organisation for black people called the N* Physician's association.

Sparrow hawk, of course I can see why Cowboys and Indians in a theme park or just as a concept is offensive, because of the genocide.

But claiming Native American is preferable to Indian is just white people signalling PC to each other and ignores the feelings of the people referred to.

We visited a lovely native American themed village near Boston. No cowboys but plenty of ye olde settlers and it didn't really go into the whole genocide part of the history. The native American tour guides were real native Americans though.

Barack Obama signed a bill about a month a go to remove and stop the usage of certain words by the federal government.

Some of the words are
Oriental (changed to Asian Americans or Asians) because if the negative connotation it has in America.

Both of the N words (African American and black Americans)
Eskimo and Aleut (Alaska native)

Red Indian or Indian which will be Native American.

Gosh - but I can think of a few more less charming descriptions of people from ME to add to the list.

I don't think it's the name that is the problem but what it means when people say Cowboys and Indians. Surely people would understand this. I agree with the notion that if this was Jews vs nazis the understanding would be different. Similar concept, one group being wiped by another in form of genocide. The life of one group seen as worthless by the oppressors.

I think kids nowadays would prefer plants versus zombies, does anyone even play cowboys versus Indians anymore?

Yes, Quencher.

But I have met otherwise intelligent people who didn't know there were indigenous people in North America.

They thought it was just a children's game or a TV show idea, like mermaids in Peter Pan.

Many people don't know the history of the US.

Surely the 'cowboys' weren't boys at all, but men. And often these brave pioneers had nothing to do with cows either. So, yes, probably offensive to their descendants.

There actually is a cowboy section in Plants vs. Zombies!

Many people don't know the history of the US

If anything, people only see a sanitised Hollywood version.

Clearly offensive, though not an issue there's much awareness of in the uk. As a pp said, native Americans have reclaimed the word Indian, and actually I've heard it argued that it is the preferable term, since it doesn't try to hide the history of oppression. I wouldn't dare say it though, and anyway there's clearly a massive difference between reclaiming the word and having a load of kids dress up as a funny cartoon version of your genocidally slaughtered ancestors as a game. This would make headlines in the us, i do find it strange that it's accepted here. Same with dressing up in sombreros, ponchos and fake moustaches as 'Mexicans' - I've seen that in the uk and it always makes me

I go to Gulliver's World a lot and will tell them to change their signage. One poster compared the sign to Nazis vs Jews. That is not acceptable and needs to be changed.

Surely the 'cowboys' weren't boys at all, but men. And often these brave pioneers had nothing to do with cows either. So, yes, probably offensive to their descendants.
Cowboys had everything todo with cows and men on horse backs. They are still in existence.
The native Americans didn't want the cows being transported north trumping on their crops. They hated the Cowboys passing on their land. They would shoot the natives and the natives would shoot back. Or vices versa.

Just remember that in the movies the stories are told differently. Mixing colonisation and the conflict between Cowboys and native Americans by making one movie.

It's definitely not a myth.

The world has gone mad. Are we still allowed cops and robbers (or would that affect someones right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty).

What about Drs and Nurses? Or is that sexist.

I'd have barely noticed the sign and can just imagine the laugh it will give the office staff the day the complaint letter/email arrives, i'll make their day.

What about Drs and Nurses? Or is that sexist.
That's always been sexist. It nothing new the same way it would be wrong to dress up like a school girl as sexual fetish.

It's sexist if it's always male doctor vs female nurse. This when referring to adults.

Bartholins - 'brave pioneers'?

What's brave about stealing land and settling it as your own?

Janey, either you're really stupid and genuinely don't understand what we're talking about or you're just being goady for the sake of it. Either way your post is ridiculous.

I assumed - perhaps charitably - that Bartholins was being ironic with the whole 'brave pioneers' thing. Not sure I can stretch to thinking janey is being ironic, though.

I'm genuinely surprised that any adults could not know the history behind the game "Cowboys and/versus Indians". Very surprised.

This is the way gollywog threads go or the thread about the Rainbows celebrating Empire Day. Some people really are very ignorant about history. I am no longer surprised about that.