Do you want Democracy? Or not?

[Cleo1303]

We have just had the Referendum vote and Leave won.

Now we have everyone from David Lammy saying the Government should ignore the result, to Nicola Sturgeon and various London Remainers wanting Scotland and London to declare UDI.

So, do you want democracy where everyone's vote counts, or do you only want a vote when the result suits you and matches your own opinion?

Honest answers please.

I honestly don't know. In theory, I believe in democracy, but in practice, it's impossible to ensure that people are making informed choices.

On balance, I think I am in favour of parliamentary democracy, where we elect representatives who make decisions on our behalf, but opposed to government by referendum, because too few of us have a sufficient understanding of what we're voting on.

Is it OK for boys to be let out of the house?

Ah yes I guess it's only the 'chavs' who value democracy. It's spiteful comments like this that make me unable to take some of the Remain camp seriously.

All I've heard is how uneducated, poor, lazy and selfish the whole of the leave voters are. How is that productive in the slightest? It's similar to the 'Everyone is racist!' comments. It does nothing for discussion. But I can honestly see massive civil unrest if the vote is ignored.

It isn't democracy when the right wing media feeds lies to the public, and get away with it.

retrorobot please feel free to leave immediately. You won't be missed.

And to think that people who voted "leave" are called uneducated, narrow-minded and thick.

This wasn't a normal election where you might wake up to a government you fundamentally disagree with, but will have a chance opposing throughout their term, and then possibly unelecting them in the future.

This is massive. And irrevocable.

I do think we need to pause. And consider, without the rhetoric and bile and anger, exactly what this means.

incywinci - I know remain voters convinced WW3 would break out the same day if we voted to leave. They were convinced of this fact. There were lies on both sides. And those across Europe throwing threats at the British people so they didn't dare vote leave didn't exactly help. Who on earth wants to be part of a union that threatens you if you consider leaving? Even Obama has backtracked on his comments.

Both campaigns should have been ran on facts, not that there were many. Or not at all. Cameron opened Pandora's Box in allowing a referendum and it hasn't turned out the way many expected.

Several people have said that many people who voted were ignorant or stupid or both, but if you are saying they should not have been allowed to vote in the Referendum then it follows on that they should not be allowed to vote in General Elections either.

I believe the white working class vote tipped the balance in favour of Leave and they voted Leave because their concerns about immigration have been ignored by the MPs they elected to represent them. It may have been a protest vote but it also means they genuinely want things to change.

We either live in a one person one vote democracy or we don't.

I voted to leave because I don't want to live in a European Superstate. The dissolution of the USSR and the Eastern Bloc happened because people in the countries controlled by the USSR by bureaucrats they had never elected got to the stage where enough was enough and they decided to take power back. They wanted to control their own destiny and that is what 17 million people in this country voted for ultimately even if they voted to Leave for different reasons.

People in other EU countries are now also calling for Referendums. I think the whole EU will collapse within five years and I expect a lot of people who feel so unhappy right now will be relieved that we got out first. We need to go back to the beginning. We need to trade but we don't need a political union and that is where it all went wrong.

OP, I want democracy for every nation of the United Kingdom. I think every country should have voted for us to leave, for Brexit to happen. Scotland voted to remain. The north of Ireland voted to remain - and their peace process is in the balance.

Democracy ain't perfect.. indeed it has many flaws. But as long as leaders know they can get booted out without being put against a wall and shot they tend to behave themselves. Once politicians believe they are above popular cansure they begin to get nasty. Think Chauchescu (sp) and Mugabe.

OTOH, democracy does tend to produce ineffective government that can't make decisions in case it "offends" the chattering classes... and girl oh girl do we have a lot of them here.

Someone once said, it is the least worse bad option. I tend to agree.

Retro, if nothing else please educate yourself dear. The 'morons' in port Talbot aren't white English, they're Welsh for a start, so make sure you know all your facts!

retrorobot3 - I am well aware of the previous riots. This is something different entirely. It wasn't a single group of people who voted to Leave.

I'm not sure what your obvious hatred of the unemployed has to do with democracy though.

This is the least problematic of retro's wise witterings..

I want a democracy where 16 and 17 year olds get a vote. Because, quite frankly, they have more sense. We need a second referendum where they are included.

The result we have will be devastating for the UK, many of the leavers are just starting to realise that.

BoatyMcBoatface.

Have you ever met the British public. Most have voted on the basis of the sun and daily star headlines not facts

And remember more people voted remain than voted for the government so I think there is still a valid reason to fight.

More people voted leave than remain.

By definition Democracy is low on the list of priorities for Remainers. They voted for an undemocratic supranational institution. So of course when the vote didn't go their way they are clamouring to do it again.

Remainers neither support nor understand the importance of adhering to democratic principles. If they did they would immediately understand that a 2nd Referendum would destroy all trust in our system and set a precedent for any and every vote to be challenged in future.

The way Remainers have behaved these last few days has really demonstrated the inherent foolishness and immaturity of their side of the argument.

I believe in a democracy in that I believe the public should decide on who runs the country. Once this is decided, then I think the politicians should make the actual decisions. Letting the general public, many of whom seem unable to comprehend the issues (even some who claim to be "educated"), make decisions on exactly what should happen is disastrous as demonstrated with the EU referendum.

Brexiters think they will be getting a democracy?? That is laughable. Do you think the right wing really want a democracy? Bonkers. I think the leavers are in for a big shock. History will tell that this 'democratic' vote led to the least democratic society we have ever seen.

I don't think the referendum should've happened at all, because neither side had concrete facts for people to vote on. They had predictions, lies and party in-fighting, but no list of hard facts about exactly what would happen in the event of remaining or leaving. Such a huge decision should have been made without the enormous lies and misdirection.

Yes, retrorobot, there need to be rules for trade. It's quite clear that Angela Merkel announcing that the whole world was welcome to come to Europe was the final nail in the coffin for many people - here and in many other EU countries.

That had nothing to do with trade rules. That was a political statement. Then she and Juncker decided on a quota system for refugees. It wasn't up to them to dictate to other countries what they should do.

If people who have arrived in Europe get given citizenship and their passport in any one of the EU countries they can immediately come to the UK if they want to. When Turkey and the other countries who have applied to join are allowed to do so their citizens can come here too. Quite clearly a huge percentage of voters don't want that to happen and that is why they voted to leave.

Yes, some white English people should get off their backsides and work. So should many of the other non-English people who now reside here and don't work.

The ONLY good thing that may come out of this is people getting more engaged with politics and possibly reform.

The referendum should never have been held. I wish our elected representatives were brave enough to take the referendum precisely as it is - advisory, with no legal binding - and hold firm and keep us in the EU. It is too big a decision to leave to the public, great swathes of whom genuinely didn't understand what it was about and who are already seeing they were sold a pup. I keep hearing and seeing interviews from people who voted leave and now realise they made a mistake. Or "I took my husband's guidance" because they don't have their own brain.

Funny how the Brexiters are saying we can't have a second referendum. Farage has said "it's not best out of three" and we shouldn't have another one when only in May he himself said if the vote was "as close as 52:48 to remain I'd call for a second referendum" and the SNP can (as seems likely) have another referendum on their independence within two years of their previous one that didn't go their way.