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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do you want Democracy? Or not?

126 replies

Cleo1303 · 25/06/2016 23:03

We have just had the Referendum vote and Leave won.

Now we have everyone from David Lammy saying the Government should ignore the result, to Nicola Sturgeon and various London Remainers wanting Scotland and London to declare UDI.

So, do you want democracy where everyone's vote counts, or do you only want a vote when the result suits you and matches your own opinion?

Honest answers please.

OP posts:
sandrabedminster · 26/06/2016 02:25

The remainders told just as many lies.

If they ignore this I'm taking to the streets.

Kummerspeck · 26/06/2016 02:33

I have not been hoodwinked and i want democracy.

I am old enough to have felt the fear of losing my home, job and future when Britain pulled out of the ERM but am incredibly glad that we did that. I think this situation is very similar but exacerbated by a social media and the panic of a generation who have never had to face any tough situations before

Maybebabybee · 26/06/2016 02:35

I want democracy.

But I think EU membership should not have been put to the electorate, it's too big.

Alisvolatpropiis · 26/06/2016 02:36

What lies did the Remain campaign tell?

What lies have the Leave campaign admitted were exactly that?

  1. 350 million a week for the NHS? A lie, further privatisation is likely
  2. Protecting the economy? A lie - have you seen the value of sterling recently?
  3. Lowering immigration? A lie - it will be Commonwealth now instead.
  4. Taking back control? A lie - we are still bound by the European Court of Human Rights

So that's the big four lies.

beetroot2 · 26/06/2016 02:36

No it's not "too big" nothing is too big nor should it ever be.

Alisvolatpropiis · 26/06/2016 02:37

It is too big though. What does the average person know about the EU?

Nothing except what the media tells them.

beetroot2 · 26/06/2016 02:43

No it's not Alvis, and a very good reason to get out don't you think?

beetroot2 · 26/06/2016 02:46

Fear is no reason to have stayed.

Alisvolatpropiis · 26/06/2016 02:52

Er, no,

It wasn't fear which make me vote Remain, it was knowing a great deal about it beforehand.

I'm glad you are happy with your vote and hope you still are in the future.

beetroot2 · 26/06/2016 02:59

I am thank you. My Son has a bright future in reshaping Great Britain. It's exciting.

iPost · 26/06/2016 09:33

Everybody, who was paying attention and resisting the urge to lock themselves in an echo chamber, knew everything there was to know about the referendum except for one thing.

The result.

It is telling that all these grave misgivings about its democratic validity did not translate into notable action until the "wrong" side won.

Please spare me any future bleatings about the "tolerant" nature of Britain. The "tolerance" for people who in the main have the thinner edge of the wedge has been only too apparent. As has the totalitarian tinge infecting clumps of the British left/liberal leaning population.

Anybody vilifying leavers & supporting this setting aside of a democratic process, you are throwing your poor, your disenfranchised and your low on access to opportunities under the bus by attempting to deny them an equal democratic voice. When they vote in a way you don't like, your "superior intelligence, education & character" belatedly kicks in once the result is known and you suddenly notice all these "fatal flaws" in a democratic process that has been in sway for a year.

No amount of virtue signalling with stackable goats on benefits and council house threads can wash the above away. True colours have come out.

And if I were in Britain I would be worried about a successful bid to wrestle a winning vote off people. More than 17 million have realised just how big a group they are. The extent to which they dominate the geography of England and Wales. The reality that not one of the four main parties adequately represents them.

That is a potent force with no unifying representation. Yet.

If you want to poke that angry bear with a stick by annulling a vote they won, have the fuck at it. But don't whinge after if you end up politically eviscerated by its claws as retribution.

Given how much smarter than anybody else a sizeable chunk of remainers believe themselves to be, you'd have thought there'd be some recognition of that potential side effect of their cunning "cancel the referendum result" plan.

manicinsomniac · 26/06/2016 10:17

iPost - I think you make a lot of good points and I don't think the population should get a second vote.

But

  1. there was a lot of talk (and I think an online petition) about how the referendum should be cancelled and how people didn't know enough to vote long before it actually happened. No action, admittedly, just talking. But then the aftermath is only talking really isn't it.

  2. it isn't necessarily about wanting to win or be right or be more intelligent. It's about trying to stop something really, really bad for the country that is quite likely irreversible if it goes ahead. I suspect a lot of Leave voters would support that, now they can see the lies and what is happening. I only know one Leave voter and she would change it now.

If the government found a way to stop this by refusing to honour the referendum (they can legally do that, that's not the same as calling a 2nd one to try and reverse the vote) I think it would be a good thing for the country. It would be a bad thing for the government who would never be trusted again but I think they deserve that, quite frankly!

retrorobot3 · 26/06/2016 10:30

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DurhamDurham · 26/06/2016 10:32

I'm also wondering if it's worth considering a counter petition to the one doing the rounds now, to uphold the result of the referendum. The petition seems to be gaining momentum and it needs to be balanced with one from those who chose to leave....you know the ones who won by a majority.

Hoppinggreen · 26/06/2016 10:32

Having studied Politics at Uni I have always though Democracy was a bit overrated. It's something people die and kill for and I can understand that if you are being horribly oppressed but if it were possible I would opt for a benign dictatorship every time. Sadly such a thing doesn't actually exist.
I am actually opposed in principal to referenda (sp?) as unfortunately as we have seen personalities, lies, spin and in some cases pure ignorance take over and push the actual facts to one side.

manicinsomniac · 26/06/2016 10:35

retrorobot that's one of the most disgusting things I've read on here - far worse than anything a Leave voter has posted. This situation is terrible but in no way excuses that.

Cleo1303 · 26/06/2016 10:36

"[the people of Rotherham] pimped out their daughters to pervert Asians and then complained about it !!!!!

Are you for real? That is a disgusting thing to say. Many parents in Rotherham were begging the police to take action against the Asians who were grooming their daughters but the police refused to because they didn't want to upset the Asian community.

Presumably you think all those Asians who have been jailed for it were innocent pawns who were not guilty and should not be in prison?

OP posts:
allegretto · 26/06/2016 10:37

There is more than one type of democracy you know! I don't agree with the current way of voting - both in general elections and in the ref. The question in the referendum was basically: are you happy now or do you want to change without knowing what will happen? That's a pretty shit question to ask.

BessieBraddocksEgg · 26/06/2016 10:41

Retro robot you just show your ignorance.
Very sad.

retrorobot3 · 26/06/2016 10:46

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emeraldlakes · 26/06/2016 10:49

Democracy was the reason I voted. I'm very worried what will happen if the government would either choose to ignore the vote completely or hold a second referendum anytime soon. I believe there would be massive civil unrest not only from Leave voters but Remain voters who value their democratic freedoms as well. I imagine riots would break out across the UK and that frightens me much more than any repercussions of leaving the EU.

ShowOfHands · 26/06/2016 10:50
Shock

Anyway...

This was only an illusion of democracy. It started as a vote winning sweetener and twisted into a competion based on lies and spin. That's not democracy, it's farce.

You could have a referendum on capital punishment, as described above. A marginal win and what? It doesn't make it right.

As an aside, I hear a lot of statements about what I am not. I am not misled. I am not ignorant. I am not racist. The misled, racist and ignorant don't tend to recognise this either tbh.

I'm not making any sort of generalisation about either camp btw but when your free choice was never free, how can anybody declare disinterest in confidence?

The referendum shouldn't have happened.

retrorobot3 · 26/06/2016 10:50

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Cleo1303 · 26/06/2016 10:51

There are lots of non-working non-white people too. Do you despise them as much as you clearly despise white people?

OP posts:
BessieBraddocksEgg · 26/06/2016 10:52

So allowing a youngster to the chip shop after 4 pm on a winter's night is pimping out..

Letting your Kids go to Meadowhall on a Saturday afternoon is pimping out..

Rightyo.