To think that it's time Classism became as much of a No-no as Racism, Sexism or Homophobia?

[Just5minswithDacre]

Starting with MN talk guidelines?

You know. If you're going to make chav beyond the pale then you really need to make beyond the pale beyond the pale.

I was quoting MN Talk Guidelines terminology fuckin, but on the subject of 'beyond the pale', there was some uproar about it 2 or 3 years ago, and MNHQ's research/response was that the origin of the phrase was from n'PAle' as a geographical term meaning an enclosed area, e.g. The Pale of Settlement.

^....was from 'Pale' as a geographical term meaning....

Can't say I noticed any poor-people bashing here. Not liking people because they do things that are typically associated with poor people, but have nothing to do with money, is different from bashing poor people as a group.

There's nastiness about poverty and then there's nastiness about WC culture. They overlap and inform each other.

But it's also true that they can be quite separate or stand-alone.

Because beyond the pale was... where?

So which pale is being referenced?

Well whatever, I'm just being curious now, if it's racist it should go. 100%

"A step too far" could be substituted and does it exactly the same job.

Thanks fuckin. I had no idea.

I thought there were "Pales" in European cities as well, not exclusively an Irish term and have never thought of that as racist but maybe I'm wrong

I am disgusted with some of the posting on here this week and disgusted with MN for allowing it to stand

Oh there's lots of nastiness about working class culture on here: football, package holidays, big telly, popping in on your family unannounced, telling your kid to fight back if they are bullied. All big no's on mumsnet.

Just Googled and the first Pale was in Russia but it has also been used in France and Ireland. The Pale was the fence enclosing the city or the boundaries of settlement and some of the Jews were allowed to live "Beyond the Pale" so unless there were uncivilised Irish in medieval Russia I think you are getting unnecessarily overheated
Beyond the Pale

My mother always said beyond the Pale referred to the Russian reference and that is who I have always used it and thought it meant. It's just an expression.

In more general terms people should be kind to others.

In law the Equality Act 2010 only prohibits a very limited numkber of discriminations such as race. It is perfectly permissible not to give the surgeon or pianist a job because they don't have hands or refuse the application for the academic post from someone with an IQ of 100 or because you think someone looks too fat or thin for a role or has the wrong accent. Obviously we can change the law if we choose but it remains lawful to discriminate on a whole load of grounds.

If the rich or posh are squirming because the less well off got one over them because the rich were stupid enough to offer a referendum then that's just touch. They will have to live with it.