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Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to still have no clue which way to vote on Thursday?

172 replies

DowntonIsMyHome · 20/06/2016 23:37

I've looked at the BBC referendum check thing to try to get through the spin but it hasn't helped much

I'm a single parent at uni doing a post grad that will end next year, then I will qualify. I have a council house and barely made ends meet before quitting work to do the course

not sure if any of that means I should lean towards in or out but my whole family are 'out', citing life as 'better' before the EU and immigration as their reasons (I don't have the same view re immigration as they do, though)

argh.... the deadline is hurtling towards me and I ain't got a clue!

OP posts:

missmoon · 22/06/2016 13:36

"There will be a plan if we are to leave but the government aren't telling us because they want us to stay."

If there is a plan, why isn't the Leave campaign telling us what it is?

Babysafari · 22/06/2016 13:38

Do people really, honestly believe that if we leave then the government are going to end free movement of people? The actual people in charge haven't said that at all. We may well still come to a trade arrangement that has the existing rules.

It won't be up to Boris and Nigel.

wasonthelist · 22/06/2016 13:39

Lots of wildlife areas near me are protected by EU legislation. Remove that and hey presto, huge new housing developments all over the countryside.No thank.s

Lots of wildlife near me is being eradicated by the 4000 houses they are building. In spite of planning law and "protections" (that come from our law, not the EU BTW), hedgerows have been illegally destroyed and habitats wrecked, as well as footpaths closed off. No-one has the power or authority to stand up to the bully-boy developers now, that won't change whether we Leave or Remain.

FlaviaAnsell · 22/06/2016 13:45

If there is a plan, why isn't the Leave campaign telling us what it is?

The Leave campaign isn't the government. This isn't a general election, when the side that wins takes office the next day. If the vote is Leave, the Leave campaign won't be in charge of what happens next. You need to be asking the government what the plan is. They're the ones who'll decide.

ShoesieQ · 22/06/2016 13:46

But the trade barriers you fear will not happen. As everyone is bored of hearing - the Germans sell more to us than we sell to them - they will not put tariffs in the way of their sales and risk jobs in their country. A German industrialist said as much on the Today programme this morning."

Fraid that's not how it works: any Trade Agreement with the EU will have to be agreed by ALL members, not just Germany. And they're hardly going to all want to reward the UK for leaving are they?

FFS if you're not sure how to vote, vote Remain.

stubbornstains · 22/06/2016 13:47

Yes, I don't think that housebuilding or not is a good example of environmental protection we've received from the EU. The EU has been more instrumental in things like cleaner air, cleaner seas and beaches, and- recently- voting to ban pesticides which harm bees (something the UK government campaigned AGAINST ).

wasonthelist · 22/06/2016 13:47

Fraid that's not how it works: any Trade Agreement with the EU will have to be agreed by ALL members, not just Germany. And they're hardly going to all want to reward the UK for leaving are they?

So the Germans will start shutting their car factories just to make us sorry? That's going to be a real vote winner for Merkel (who has an election coming).

missmoon · 22/06/2016 13:56

It is totally disingenuous to argue that the Leave campaign won't be in government post Brexit, so there is no requirement for them to explain what will happen if we vote Leave. We would basically be writing a blank cheque. This is the scariest aspect of the entire campaign, in my opinion.

Ginmakesitallok · 22/06/2016 13:57

Haven't read the wft, buy am fed up with the whole sovereignty thing being used as a reason to leave the eu. We have our sovereignty, the UK is a sovereign state. The eu is not a sovereign state and does not change our sovereign state. Our parliament sets our laws,the eu doesn't. The eu is made up of lots of sovereign states, and we are a huge player in it.

Leaving the eu would be just stupid. Fingers crossed common sense prevails.

ShoesieQ · 22/06/2016 14:01

Was - spite has nothing to do with it. German industrialists won't have a say in this. And even if they do persuade Merkel to cut us a break, how are they going to be able to convince the other 20 odd states to do the same?

Littlemisslovesspiders · 22/06/2016 14:02

Leaving the eu would be just stupid

In your opinion

Babysafari · 22/06/2016 14:03

The leave campaigners aren't the government though. They are just people (some are MPs) that believe the country would be better leaving the EU.

The government will have to sort it out whatever happens. There is no way that DC and Osborne haven't got a plan.

unlucky83 · 22/06/2016 14:05

For me it is down to democracy - there is an acknowledged democrat deficiency. The remain argument is we can change it from within. I don'[t think we can - that has been being said for years and years and years. And as the EU expands further that becomes more unlikely...
We don't know exactly what will happen if we leave - but I am certain voting remain to keep things the same is misguided -the EU in 10yrs will not be the same as it is now. I don't think we will get another chance to get out in the foreseeable future.
I think we do vote leave it will massively shake up the EU and it may change for the better ... so much that we might even want to get back in to a trading partnership - and as net contributors they will probably want us back...
But as things stand I think we have to get out...I think things are only going to get worse...

OrangesandLemonsNow · 22/06/2016 14:05

The leave campaigners aren't the government though. They are just people (some are MPs) that believe the country would be better leaving the EU.

Many seem to be forgetting this.

Ginmakesitallok · 22/06/2016 14:08

Littllemiss- no, in my opinion it would be short sighted, xenophobic, economically disastrous, small minded, and irrational! !!

Babysafari · 22/06/2016 14:08

I agree unlucky staying so that we can maintain the status quo isn't ideal because the eu have new things in the pipeline.

Things won't stay the same either way.

Slingcrump · 22/06/2016 14:09

OP - in answer to the Toby Young video posted below and other important issues - read the very informative post from Photosythesis below! Really interesting!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2667752-Brexit-Facts-Not-Fear?

Ailicece · 22/06/2016 14:11

Maybe. But you can't be sure of that, no-one can. I agree with ShoesieQ that it won't be up to German industrialists. Negotiations with all of the EU will be long and complicated, with nobody able to predict the outcome in advance. Meanwhile the economy takes a nosedive all across Europe but especially in the UK as financial institutions and lots of other companies leave.

And just why do Leavers think that we'd be able to negotiate a better deal from the outside that we have been from the inside? Makes absolutely no sense to me.

Personally I'm not prepared to take the risk.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 22/06/2016 14:11

The issue with zero hours could be changed by our government along with low wages hit the eu is also not tackling this issue as its not hair here that zero hour contracts have increased. Labour MEP's have petitioned the EU council about this not really a huge surprise nothing has been done and they dragging their feet about it

So who does the EU really look out for and protect

Littlemisslovesspiders · 22/06/2016 14:12

Wondered how long it would be before the 'your xenophobic ' and 'small minded' if you want to leave started.

Completely not true. How about people stop attacking others and labelling with things because they don't agree with them.

Binkybix · 22/06/2016 14:17

the EU in 10yrs will not be the same as it is now

But don't we have an opt out out of greater Union??

Slingcrump · 22/06/2016 14:17

OP - although the following is a pro-Remain article, I think it offers a balanced overview of what is at stake:

www.ft.com/cms/s/2/b7203bbc-3793-11e6-a780-b48ed7b6126f.html#axzz4CItXvhDh

Particularly...

"I believe that the quiet decency, democratic traditions and liberalism of the British offers something irreplaceable to Europe. The democratic Europe of today owes immeasurably to British politics, British values and British courage. Britain would lose hugely if it cut itself off from the continent. But so, too, would the latter. "

HollyGoeslightly · 22/06/2016 14:18

It's just lazy to call people who want to leave 'xenophobic' and 'small minded'. These insults don't carry any weight any more.

Jayfee · 22/06/2016 14:29

I'm in for my future and my children's and by the way I read the daily mail ...and the guardian . I get very fed up with the idea that daily mail readers are bigots and guardian readers are the intelligentsia.

Ginmakesitallok · 22/06/2016 14:44

Given that none of the leaders of the major parties supports Brexit, who are we hoping is going to negotiate a favourable exit?

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