Help! Builder threatening small claims court over additional invoice

[FasterThanASnakeAndAMongoose]

I've posted about this before, but long story short is that we had major building work done. It massively overran (3 months became 8). We paid all invoices straight away. We agreed some extras and paid separate invoices for these as soon as they were issued. Paid the final invoice the day that we got the completion certificate from Building Control.

Several weeks after completion the builder sent a new invoice for £1600. It was for various extras. None of them had been discussed or quoted for. We weren't happy but offered around £400. We thought this was fair and it covered items which although not agreed, had been done and weren't in the original spec.

The rest of the things he was invoicing for were either stand alone items already specified in previous invoices and paid for, or things which were included in larger aspects of the work.

For example, he wanted over £500 extra for moving drainage in the kitchen. He'd got drawings of the new kitchen, saw the old one (so knew that the sink etc had moved) and the new kitchen was waiting on site before he quoted.

Anyway, we offered him a full and final settlement of just over £600. He rejected it, we offered it again.

He's just emailed. He's rejecting our offer and says if we don't pay the full amount within 21 days he'll take us to small claims.

What now? How likely is this to get to court? Home insurance legal cover people won't advise us until we receive the court paperwork.

Every time we've responded it's then taken him at least 4 weeks to get back to us. This is so stressful and horrible. Any advice would be welcome.

If we do end up in small claims, what's it actually like?

Should we retract our offer now and tell him we'll await instruction, or leave it on the table, or pay him what we think is fair?

Help.

He is absolutely trying it on, retract the offer and tell him you will let the court decide.

I wonder how many poor people he has done this too who have then paid out of fear of being taken to court.

*to

I wouldn't be concerned by his small claims threat, even he goes ahead with it. He can't charge you for items already included or for items that you didn't know about, or even want (it sounds like he's desperately trying to claw back costs from the project overrunning). He won't win a case that's not credible and lacks evidence.

If he does start proceedings, do counter claim for the copper piping.

The small claims process is fairly straightforward and can easily be handled without a solicitor. In my experience of the small claims track, courts (and their processes) can be antiquated and disorganised - worth checking that e.g. they receive paperwork.

Echo everyone's advice to withdraw offer and let him sue you.

If he does sue you, you can counterclaim for monies spent in rectifying the mistakes he made

I would write back to him. I would point out that

You have legal expenses insurance who will pay for you to be represented

You retract your previous offers which were made purely in an attempt to resolve matters without resource to the courts

If you choose to issue proceedings you will not hesitate to counterclaim for rectification works including removing and retiling the bath.
Include a final document outlying your response to his bill.

I would wait for him to send his court paperwork before you refuse to pay him any money at all. If it does go to court and the court decides that you should pay £400 or £600, might that be registered as a CCJ against you and entirely screw up your credit rating for years to come?

I would write offering him the £600 one more time, explain in words of one syllable why that is fair and tell him that you are happy to fight his claim in court should he wish to go ahead with it.

Good luck - builders often try this but it does seem foolish when all the payments and the work they cover has been documented.

Fettuccinecarbonara
If he does sue you, you can counterclaim for monies spent in rectifying the mistakes he made

I missed that bit. OP, I'd send him an e-mail retracting your previous offer, stating that if he takes you to court, you will counterclaim for the value of your dh's remedial work and for copper piping taken without permission. (I'm sure the value of your counterclaim will exceed the builder's figure.)

I think you have little to fear from someone whose case is entirely lacking in credibility and who takes a month to respond to your e-mails.

We had the same scenario here. I was being sent emails and signed for letters which I refused. The emails were so abusive I couldn't read them. Daughter signed for one letter which meant he could then claim interest on the amount owed. Our build took 4 years longer than it should. We are still sorting problems from completion 4 years ago. Told him to take us to court. Very difficult as the architect was also urging us to pay him. Pressure was unbelievable. Building control helped us out - think because they felt sorry for us - arranged a face-to-face meeting which the architect refused to attend. Lots of information on-line to help prepare going to court. Watching dates seems to be the most important thing. We still haven't recovered from the trauma of it all.

Bloody hell Abbie that's horrendous! Hope you can put it behind you eventually.

I'm surprised how much this has got to me. I think it's partly because we had a nightmare with our previous builder - they tried to increase the quote by 50% after ripping out our kitchen and bathroom. We had an 8 month old at the start and no kitchen or bathroom for 9 months. This guy is the new builder. It's been a nightmare from start to finish.

I'm not surprised how much its got to you. The feeling of being out of control and at their mercy. No consideration for the client. At one point I was in tears pleading with my partner to let me pay them to get them out. Some days there were up to 17 men working here - they were all tripping over each other. Our dogs were badly affected by it all. Our house is not big and the work was to have taken 4 months. Every time they came something seemed to get damaged or broken - just felt the house was wrecked. This year has been a turning point as now tackling the garden which was trashed.
My advice is don't give in. We're in Scotland and I found lots of good advice on the internet. Began to look forward to my day in court. Our main argument was the house wasn't watertight! With the help of building control an agreed list was made of the jobs that needed done / rectified and the amount to be paid. We are very very grateful for their help to resolve this.
I'm now very wary of any workmen coming to the house. The builders were recommended! Did all the right things to check him out.

No lalalonglegs that is not what happens, If the judge was to side with the builder and order the OP pays £400 / £600 or whatever the OP has 30 days to pay in full and not have a CCJ registered against her, her credit file would not show a CCJ or anything that is likely to affect it. If the OP did not pay in the 30 days window or wanted a payment plan that would take more than 30 days to pay then a CCJ would be registered.

Husband is a sparky, he said any changes to original spec would need a variation order.

I read your exact op, he said that he would need that signed by you, before work was done.

If you can prove the stuff he's asking for is on quotes already, have fun saying 'see you in court'.

If you in sussex or want more advice, PM

We had exactly this situation with a builder doing work to our kitchen. As you did, we paid for all agreed extras and we offered a contribution towards the final unexpected invoice as full and final settlement. He accepted it but refused settlement and had his solicitors write a harsh letter threatening us with legal action. Our legal advisor advised us at that point to go about reclaiming the overpayment. I wrote back and told him this is what we would do if we heard from them again and we never did. Just out of interest, did he originally give you a quotation or an estimate? Quotations are fixed price, estimate is just that. We had a quotation which strengthened our case.

Thank you to everyone who posted. It really is a big help and very reassuring. I was worried we were possibly in the wrong but I'm sure we're not.

I'm almost hoping it does go to court now!

It was a quotation, not an estimate. There were agreed extras while the work was ongoing. We asked him for prices before he did those extras but he never got around to supplying the actual quote before doing those (extra) bits of work. When he eventually gave us the costings for those things they were generally ok and we paid.

I've never met anyone as disorganised as him. He's one of these optimistic types. He was forever saying "Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll get it to you by the end of the week!" And then he wouldn't, and there would be some convoluted reason to do with his wife's Nate's BIL needing to replace something on his van, because it's a common fault with Fords, did you know? Have you ever had a Ford? Oh wow, you had a Fiesta once did you?! Wow. Yeah, great little car. My cousin's neighbour won't buy anything else..." As we stand with our eyes glazing over wondering when the f* he's going to get to the point.

Most conversations with him were generally like that! No wonder it takes him weeks and weeks to answer emails

Quick update - we replied and naturally said that our offer is still on the table but it will be automatically revoked without further reference to him on receipt of the court paperwork.

That was nearly a fortnight ago and unsurprisingly, he hasn't replied! Twat

*Basically, not naturally

Following this-stick to your guns op-he sounds like a cowboy.

I think with the level of detail you have OP that you will have no problems defending. It's been a while since I did anything like this but I recall that You do have the right to reply before the hearing. I believe that the court will try and mediate with you both before going in front of a judge and at that point if he has no coherent argument I think they'll gently try and steer him into settling /dropping. It's a daunting process but if you have everything in writing you have nothing to fear. As a PP said, you need to state your reason for seeing him in court is that you have no faith in further spurious invoices not arriving. Definitely counter claim with quotes for the rectification work from reputable tradespeople with written reports.

One further thing to think about is whether or not all of this stress is worth the £1200 or not? As galling as it might be, consider paying it and moving on vs. precious time off work /family time defending it. It is likely his trade body (if he has one) is supplying legal advice and a lawyer. Then write a very honest Google review (they cannot be withdrawn only amended) once he has cashed the cheque. There is always more than one way to skin a cat

Thanks Prada! We've actually just today received the small claims paperwork. I posted earlier but accidentally posted a picture with his name on.

He hasn't included any detail whatsoever in the particulars of the claim bit! I'll post another picture. The box is quite big so I'm assuming people usually include more detail! Could it be that the form we've received wouldn't include all the detail of his claim? Lazy man

We had a problem very similar to this with a dispute (he was chancing his arm too and was narked we had twigged he wanted the lead from the roof to "dispose of" and got told where to go) I had evidence of his shoddy workmanship and evidence he had been adequately paid for what he'd actually done (as opposed to what he said he'd done). When he made noises about small claims I (very sweetly) offered to fill out the form for him to speed up the process funnily enough he declined!

If he hasn't properly particularised his claim you stand a good chance of getting his claim struck out. If you do have Legal Expense Insurer get on to them asap so they can instruct a Solicitor for you. You only have 14 days to file an Acknowledgment of Service.

At work so very quick post. I work in accounts of construction company.

I chase invoIces & threaten small claims.

He hasn't got a leg to stand on. I'm betting his letter wasn't a properly worded letter before claim detailing all his evidence & offering mediation?

If it wasn't he'll be laughed out of court. He has to prove you agreed to these extra costs.

Is it proper paperwork from the court or just a photocopy of the claim form he intends to send off?

Waiting for a call back as I type! I'm not really worried. The stuff he's claiming for is ridiculous and we can prove we've already paid for most of it.

In our response, do you think we should start by saying that we assume he's claiming for x invoice from x date, as he hasn't actually specified any particulars?

The offer we made was really generous because we were hoping to avoid the hassle of court and try to keep things amicable. The offer is withdrawn now. Eejit. Looking forward to writing reviews! I'd held off until now.